Yup, another woven runner question.

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by Lo Down, Feb 7, 2009.

  1. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    All threads can and do occasionally break. This is a reality that has more to do with the carpet being sewn than the type of thread. All threads, when passed through the materials, are subjected to abrasions that cause chaffing to one degree or another. This chaffing causes plies in the thread to become weak, fray and all of a sudden...POP! the thread breaks.

    Because forces on the thread do result in chaffing and wear, coupled with the fact that it is seldom detectable, is the reason why the doubling of thread is always recommended. This is not the use of two threads, this is simply one thread, passed through the eye of the needle and secured with a knot on the tail end. This knot, also assists in making the initial lock more secure. The end result is two threads in every stitch and, as with heads, we all know two threads are better than one. {{Sorry, couldn't help myself with that pun}} If having a thread doubled causes problems, it time to adjust, or employ, a different sewing technique or use a different thread.

    Hope this helps. Oh, by the way, when sewing a long miter, such as on a runner, I have found that starting about four inches from the outside corner and working towards the corner with an overcast stitch, until you hit the corner and then returning, effectively making a cross stitch on the first four inches, will keep the corner square by reducing the tendency of the corner to flair to a point.

    The remainder of the seam is sewn with an over cast stitch to the edge of the inside corner, a quick lock stitch and then returned to the start point, effecting a cross stitch across the entire length of the seam. Ta-Dah! and it really is that simple and, it really is only one stitch, the overcast, cast in one direction until the end and then returned.

    With kindest regards,

    Last edited: Mar 5, 2009
  2. Harry Myers

    Harry Myers Charter Member

    Lo I would space it 3/8 inch apart . You never want to go more than a 1/2 inch. Personally to each his own . Double thread, single thread. I can sew a 3/4 yd carpet with a single thread and have great sucess with it. I have seen many people sew with double. An overcast stitch is really a stitch for securing an edge. This is a stitch then when the fringe starts detoeriorating and starts loosening up the framework. They use the overcast stitch to wrap the edge.
  3. Nick Arrera

    Nick Arrera Traitor

    We use to call stitches 1/2" or more a Holliday stitch . Seen a lot of them in my time on rip ups by rip offs .:)
  4. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Nick~ ours were about an inch or more and we called them going home or 530 stitches.

  5. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Well, nobody said it out loud, but I was apparently wrong in my definition of doubling the thread. Sorry. I'll shut up now. :shifty:
  6. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    5 o'clock stitch in CA

  7. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    The 530 is referring to the time of day. At 5:30 they increased in size.

  8. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    I'm going to disagree with you folks on the size of a stitch. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

    Here's the thing, the size of a stitch is determined by the size or sett of the weave. Ya can't just say, stitches should all be this size or that size. The bight of stitch is always going to be determined by the weave, not a tape measure.

    Consider this, a weave with eight rows in an inch {{also known as a 216 pitch}} is going to handle a much smaller stitch than say a weave with four rows per inch. {{also known as 108 pitch}} Another factor that plays into the whole appropriateness of the size of a stitch is the selvage. Materials with an 'intact' fast selvages can be sewn with smaller stitches than two edges with raw selvages.

    Am I being too controversial by posting too much information? :yell::yell::yell::yell: ?


    Last edited: Mar 5, 2009
  9. Harry Myers

    Harry Myers Charter Member

    You are not being controversial . But I am talking about the mitred seam on the landing . Selvedge to selvedge does not exist in this case. As far a the runner portion I would sew a traveller stitch and simply latex it . I see no problem at all.
  10. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Is there a web site to get needles and thread that you like to use?
  11. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    Both comments give my mind something to ponder as far as spacing goes be it a selvege edge or a miter. I'm a visual thinker and those ideas are rolling around in my head now and being saved to my hard headed drive. ;) Better too many stitches than too little I suppose.
    I don't recall the spacing of the stitches on the photo that I showed. I with I had taken a photo with a tape measure next to the stitches............ for my own use as a reference guide of sorts.
    This is helping a lot fellas.
    ....and the 5 O'clock stitch was one inch apart according to grandpa. I don't recall him using it tho. Everything had turned to thermo tape at the point I began the trade. I don't recall grandpa working with any wovens except for one Axminister job sold by Sears I think.
  12. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    Rest assured we were just being polite. :p
    However it would be one strong MF'N seam done that way.:bump:
  13. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    David...........is this called Calalilly? Very spendy stuff as I recall. I was told $225 per lineal yard and it's just just 9 inches wide. :eek::eek::eek:

    If it's the same material, I did one with a black background, green foilage and white/cream colored flowers.
    I'm asking because it really does look like the same 9 inch border carpet that I seamed onto a Karastan cut pile carpet many, many, many, years ago.
    The cut pile Karastan field material had a Karaloc back. It was installed in an 18 foot by 29 foot living room on a cliff edge, overlooking the ocean and jetty....................... a wonderfull view if I ever saw one.

    Anyway, the room had eight 45 degree miters in it. There were four corners in this large rectangular living room, plus a low level granite fireplace hearth that made up the other 4 miters. Man was that a real nightmare for young Lo. :eek::eek::eek: I won't even mention the arrest of the owners and the jail time they got. :eek::eek::eek:

    How does one figure the length and width stretch with materials like this as the work is assembled??? Somehow, Lo done good. It turned out super nice so if I can now pat myself on the back........ pat pat pat. :eek:
    I cut the miters straight through the face, each cut with a new blade...............then very carefully sealed up the edges before sewing the miters.
    I tried cutting those miters from the back side. It was a disaster. I hot taped the long runs on reccomentations from Karastan.
    I'm guessing this was a Wilton of some kind? Material was soooo SKINNY! ....... nearly as thin as grandma's needlepoint work and had just as much structural integrity................. this was truely a "woven" border........ with no coating on the back side like most seem to have these days.

    That was so long ago, I don't think Algore had invented the internet yet. :hmmm:
    ........ actually, I installed it the same week that OJ did his historical s l o w drive on the highway. Thanks for the memories. :D

    The home is about 27 miles away. I would love to knock on the door and ask the present owners if the carpet is still there and ask to see how my work held out over the years. Dang..... I need to get nerve to do that.
    I wonder about that job every time I drive by the home. It's on the town's coastal beach loop road, so I have driven by it many dozens of times over the years. there...............[​IMG]

    I really hope that image is of a carpet border material called Calalilly ...... or Lo just went off the deep end recalling memories from an old job fer absolutely nothin' :help: :D ............. so thanks for showing that particular image David................ it's totally amazing the details of that week so many years ago that are running through my mind right now. Wow. I still have a small piece of that material around here......... somewhere? :hmmm:

    I once showed a piece of that border material to Grandpa before he passed on, and he said that he had never installed a material even remotely like that............ Made me feel "special" ;)
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  14. Nick Arrera

    Nick Arrera Traitor

    Stop in and check it out LO .
    How does dinner time sound to you ?:)
  15. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    Yea Nick, but what if it's falling apart? Then dinner might be on me. :eek:
  16. Nick Arrera

    Nick Arrera Traitor

    Wear a old shirt . Something you don't mind getting a stain on . :)
  17. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I believe you said it was a different owner.:yesss:

    So sell them on a repair!!:dance:
  18. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Sorry for the short reply, not my usual style. But yes Lo, that is the Calilly field and border. The construction is what would be known today as a historic Brussels. When we read of Brussels carpet, in a historic context, especially between 1850 to 1910, this is the weave quality and structure to which they refer. A fine quality worsted wool woven at a full pitch. And yes, the total thickness, of the foundation and surface pile is about as thick as two dimes laying flat on one another.

    In recent years the term Brussels has grown to include many differing qualities of wilton constructions with looped surface pile. That's why your Grand Pops didn't recognize it, because it was before hos time. :cool::cool::cool::cool:

    Be well,

  19. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    Still workin on it Jim?

  20. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Thanks for the reference - I had to go back a few pages to figure out what you were talking about. :hmmm: I spoke with Dobby via PM back... 3 pages ago. I haven't heard anything more. If I can work something out (I have no money to invest), I will definitely make it available.


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