Wrong pad laid by installer?

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by humubu, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. humubu

    humubu New Member

    We recently had some carpet laid in our house. The installer left one corner unattached to the tack strip, which we discovered when we vacuumed. In walking around the space and looking at the pad underneath, we became concerned that the pad is not what we ordered. We ordered 7/16th, 8-lb. rebond. This pad may be 8-lb. (I have no way to know) but it measures 3/8ths.

    I called the carpet store and told our salesman that the carpet needs to be reattached in the corner and also shared our concerns about the pad. He said it had to be the right pad because he had the certification (?) for the pad that left the shop. He now says it will be several days before he and the installer can come back out to look at the pad, at which time they will take a sample of the pad to send out for testing.

    Is that standard procedure when a consumer raises a concern? Wouldn't the width of the pad be easily determined with a ruler, or does a 7/16ths pad not always measure 7/16ths?

    Thanks for your help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  2. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Send it out for testing??? Maybe they don't have high tech devices like tape measures. But that snide remark is not to mean measuring one spot of the pad is the only thing you have to do. Some pad isn't manufactured to tight tolerance levels. Some flaws just get by the inspector on the line. So yeah, the pad can be measured by anyone with a tape, but it needs to be measured in several places.

    Equally troubling is the ease with which the carpet lifted off the tackless. If stretched tight, that would be difficult to do with the average vacuum, even if it wasn't tucked in like it should be.

    But that problem just makes it easier to pull the carpet back enough to check the thickness of the pad. If the pad is flawed in that area only, then cut out the thin section and replace it with 7/16" 8# pad, then restretch the carpet so it doesn't come up with regular vacuuming.

    Jim
     
  3. humubu

    humubu New Member

    Yeah, that's what I thought. But maybe they would send it out for testing to confirm that it is 8-lb., under the premise that if we got the wrong pad, the thickness might not be the only problem? Any one have an idea how long it takes to receive such test results? We would like to move furniture back into the space.
     
  4. Hanover Fist

    Hanover Fist Pro Member

    The test is really this easy;

    ...Go into the shop, and ask them to show you their different pad grades.
    Odds are very very good they are not the same color.
    - in 20 years I've never seen the same manufacturer make two different grades in the same color - That's to remove the 'dummy factor'.

    Then check the color of that pad you payed for against the color of your installed pad.
    -If it doesn't match up, you either got hoodwinked or their warehouse guy was hung over that morning. :yesss:
    If it does match up, then ask for a lab test.
     
  5. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I still think a lab test is not necessary to make YOUR situation right. You need the right pad - the one you paid for - and the right installation. You don't need as lab test to get that. Maybe the retailer needs a lab test to make themselves feel good. But if they got a bad roll of pad, the experienced installer will know right away if something is wrong.

    Jim
     
  6. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Hanover, in the 47 years of installing I have had pad not be the same color hundreds of times. It even came from the factory in the same truck not being the same. They take what they get especially in bonded pads to chop up. 8lb 7/16 sounds like a bonded pad to me. Also they don't run true to thickness through out the roll, it will vary slightly. Depends whether it is a shaved bonded pad.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  7. Hanover Fist

    Hanover Fist Pro Member

    Aint arguin' slight color variances, Daris.
    :)
    But most reputable companies dye their pads in lots, so that they're easily identifiable to the retailer.
    -Color variations aside, even if the rebond is differing colors, the 'vaporloc' or mesh on top shouldn't be.

    If Humubu was shown and paid for blue(ish) pad, and has pink(ish) pad under his new carpet, then something is very likely amiss. Something that can be solved without waiting 3 weeks for a lab test.

    I was trying to help him solve his problem easily and quickly by eliminating possible discrepancies, first.
    But if you wanna pick nits, feel free to complicate the issue.....

    :hu:
     
  8. humubu

    humubu New Member

    Thanks all. If the pad isn't 7/16ths, it makes me wonder if it isn't 8-lb either. This pad certainly doesn't feel as plush as our old pad (which was 8-lb.) Would I be able to feel a difference?
     
  9. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Not necessarily, you probably have a bad edge of pad there. It happens all the time in rebond. Like Daris said, its made by cutting it with a knife the thickness they are making that day, add speed to that and you get one edge 3/4" thick and the other 1/4" thick.
     
  10. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Here's my evaluation on pad over 20 years. Back in the day 1993 there was 3lb. And 6 lb. rebond, of course many others but general residential bulk pad . 3lb was pink and junk some of it in spots were 1/8" thick and it was supposed to be 9/16". The 6 lb was a Cadillac, the edges were straight as could be , uniform thickness and you could tell 3/8" from 7/16" easily side by side same color.
    Jump ahead to today- 8lb. Free upgrade promo from 6 lb. varying heights in same roll , ends not straight, coating peeling off, yes quality has gone way down, now quality pad costs 5$ a yard or more with all sorts of odor guard, moisture barrier etc.
    Truly the so called 8lb. Generic pad feels less dense than the quality 6lb of 20 years ago. Last 8lb. free upgrade we installed about a year ago, what as an installer do you do , install.
     
  11. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Excuse me!! I wasn't trying to nit pick. Just stating the facts. But you are the expert -I guess.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  12. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Padding needs to be stamped density and thickness, not just a piece of paper falling off the end on thin plastic in the wrapper, it's BS
     
  13. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member


    Personally, I prefer 3/8'' 8.0lb over 7/16'' because 7/16'' allows the carpet
    backing to flex more than you want it too and it's my belief, over time, this could cause wrinkling, even if the carpet was power stretched.

    So ! I say, work the retailer for a credit, for not getting what you paid for,
    but keep what you got.

    keep us posted and thanks for visiting !

    Mike
     
  14. Hanover Fist

    Hanover Fist Pro Member

    Most likely not.
    Different manufacturers use different composites to reach what are sometimes different 'densities'.
    They are allowed to call something 8lb or 6lb as long as the majority of the tested pad is within variance - a long winded way of saying, the 'same' pad can vary from roll to roll, and manufacturer to manufacturer.

    Also, a 2x4 from the lumber yard is really a 1.75" x 3.75" - so your pad thickness may be more 'in name' than by actually measured.

    Again, all things like preference and spec details aside, just be sure that the pad that they installed is the same pad that you were shown initially - and that you paid for.
    If everything there lines up and you're still not happy with it, then ask for that lab test they are offering.
     
  15. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Nominal! Not actual, if tolerance is a sixteenth, then the width is within specs. I kinda like good 6lb versus good 8 lb for its cushiness , the higher the lb the harder the pad.
     
  16. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    It might be likely that you got 8lb 3/8'' thick pad. Could have been a mix up at the warehouse. I really wouldn't worry if this was the case. However, if they threw in a 6lb pad when they should have put in 8lb then you have an issue because of the decreased wear life of the pad/carpet.

    Like Jim said, I would worry more about the installation seeing as how you can lift up a corner of the carpet. This really should not be possible under normal circumstances and makes me wonder if the job was properly installed. Now, I'm not trying to get you worked up about things, but we are here to help you!
     
  17. Demonseed

    Demonseed Pro Member

    It is kind of like the guy saying he has one arm shorter than the other, shuffle your shoulders a bit and stretch out your arms, and bam, my right arm is 3 inches longer than my left arm!!! If you are dealing with rebond pad, as long is it is close to the specs you were quoted on you are doing good, some companies buy compressed rolls for shipping purposes, some buy non compressed rolls, sometimes the rolls are extremely uniform in thickness, some times they aren't and may have chunks of glass in them, heck, I have no idea what kind of lab test they would do? A density/thickness amorphifier analysis? So I agree with Hanover, if it is 8lb pad and it is what they showed you, I think you are okay, if it isn't, than go nuclear on them.



     
  18. UncleCliffie

    UncleCliffie Charter Member

    I used to buy my pad in 50 roll drops. I had a sheet that told me what the weight of a 40 yard roll of pad of the various densities should be. We simply would weigh a few rolls of each grade of pad recieved to ensure we were getting what we paid for. "Trust but verify." I don't remember the weights, nor do I still have the sheet, but any reputable cushion manufacturer should be able to furnish you with that information.
    Dick
     
  19. Ed

    Ed Charter Member

    Pull a small piece and take it to another flooring store. They will tell you
     
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