Woven Training II

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by David Hunt, May 29, 2008.

  1. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Not wanting to hi-jack the earlier 'wovens training' thread. There is one aspect of woven training that has always remained a little foggy for me and that is; if you were going to attend a class on woven carpet, what would you expect or want it to cover?

    Would you expect it to include written reference material of the subjects covered?

    Would you expect it to include samples and examples of the subjects covered?

    What hands on activities would you expect to be included?

    How many people is not enough and what number is too many?

    Should it include sales or marketing of woven skills being covered?

    Should it include information about establishing and effective pricing structure for the woven skills being covered?

    Are there any things you don't want to see or hear?

    How would you feel if the training included an allotted amount of time to promote the sale of products, organizations or other training events?

    Just a few questions I have. Hopefully others have more. What are your thoughts on the subject. If you were going to take several days off work, spending money on travel. meals and possibly even lodging for training. What would you expect to return home with?

    Thank you all in advance.


  2. Darren Ramey

    Darren Ramey Charter Member I Support TFP

    I wouldn't expect it but it might be nice. Half the reason for attending a class is to avoid having to read anything :).


    Sewing. When to tape, when to sew. Pattern techniques. The not so obvious tips and tricks and tips.

    The smaller the class the better, imho. I'd think anything over 7 or 8 would be hard to control, but I could be wrong.

    These could be touched on but shouldn't be the focus.

    My mom naked. A backstreet boys reunion.

    If that's what it takes to make something like this possible or lowers the cost of attending substantially, and as long as I don't get any grief for nodding off during :).
  3. Hoss

    Hoss Charter Member

    1. Mill tours
    2. Keep the cost under $1000.00
    3. class size no more than 10
    4. length of class no more than 4 days
    5. An actual installation done on site with all the nooks and crannies.
    6. Charlene's chicken & dumplins for lunch everyday
    7. What necessary tools you need
    8. proper pad for the various types of woven carpets
    9. work with narrow width goods
    10. figuring pattern repeats
    11. layout according to room dimensions, what the customer expects and what is feasible, direction of patterns
    12. See #6
    13. double stick installs
    14. custom stairwork around spindles, curve steps, runners with a curved border
  4. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    And have it in Tulsa prior to the workshop April 18 &19, 2009:D
  5. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I think I can get the classroom for the 16th and 17th.
  6. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Everything Hoss has said but add coffee all day. Also one day to understanding and selling of wovens.
  7. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    I agree with most of the above replies. I would like written reference materials to refer to. sorry for the redundancy:D
  8. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Barry,Barry, remember we are flooring guys here, don't use big words.:eek: Or at least make it understandable for your audience.:D
  9. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    "reference material to refer to' Redundant.

    Maybe you're taking the TMSO a little to seroiusly;)

  10. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    I see #14 as two or three of those 4 days. :D

    Since most of us know snapping a chalk line and ordinary carpet stretching, I think the finer details specific to different wovens is where the time needs to be spent.
    How to properly cut seams and seal them on different materials,
    sewing methods,
    hot melt seaming, and when it is NOT recommended.
    Curved stairs might be nice to know.
    Yes to samples and examples of the subjects covered.
    Yes to pricing structure to give a basic reference.
    Yes to written reference material of the subjects covered.

    I think most installers interested in wovens would do well with a "less is more" class......... basicly something to take the fear away and instill some basic knowhow and confidence when working in this unfamiliar and EXPENSIVE territory.
    A full blown class that covered everything would be very difficult time and expense wise for all involved.

    Personally, with as little woven as I see, ( a half a dozen or less per year), a class like that would not be cost effective, even if it was inexpensive. Personally, wovens are not a favorite for me anyway....................... they just can't find another Lo around here that enjoys stress more than I do. :D
  11. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member Senior Member

    I agree with Lo, less is more. I think you would have mostly experienced installers taking the class and the person doing the class would have to determine how big the class can be. As far as reference material, that could be manufacturers guidelines and could be given out on a cd for laptop use as well as maybe class schedule or guidelines. Some of the more technical aspects of the class could be hands on or shown in class but a good expanation is good enough for me. And Tulsa is a long ways away, don't forget about the NW.
  12. Hoss

    Hoss Charter Member

    I think that NOW is the best time to get into higher end goods. The people with the money are the one's spending it and they aren'y buying builder grade material!

    You can't just skim through and get good explanations of wovens and then go install them. You reap what you sow. The less you know the less you earn. I probably spent $3000 total in all the classes and seminars between David's first seminar in New York and Phil's classes in PA. It took a total of 6 days of my time. I look at it as $500 a day to help equip me with the ammo I needed to take my business to another level. I never looked back.

    You say you can't afford to take off for a week to learn a new area of flooring. I say you can't afford not to. Imagine only doing 5-10 jobs a year not knowing the proper way of working with these types of carpet and turning that into 5-10 jobs a month. Don't say it cannot be done because it is happening all around you. You just are not in the right circle or as some refer to as the "butter dish".

    I can understand if where you live is not a big spending area but just go out of your area and there is the work.
  13. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    This is precisely why I am looking to fine tune my sewing and woven/naturals expertise. I have put the word out and am getting calls.
    I think the green locomotive going though is going to get people looking outside the box and at other cpts.
    For these people the labor price isn't much of an issue as long as the job is done right.

  14. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    After reading David's comment on another thread, reburling. Be a great service to offer as an inspector.
  15. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    Something very important was missing from the list. DONUTS - preferably chocolate bars. Pepsi would be nice to but I could bring my own. :D

    Sorry I cant function in the mornings without my pepsi and donuts! :zzz:

  16. Nick Arrera

    Nick Arrera Resting In Peace

    I have many friends on the Police force Robert .. Sounds like you missed your calling ..:D
  17. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Pepsi? No way, Coke!
    Better yet Doctor Pepper, right David? :)

    For my area,
    Problem 1 is it is tough enough to get customers to buy something besides beige carpet much less to spend the money on a nice woven and/ or wool carpet in my area. ;)

    Problem 2 is getting the designers to pay for quality install, hey if they got dummy installer number 1 to do installs for cheap why pay for someone expensive? :cool:

    Seriously, around here most customers are shell shocked when I give them an estimate. :help: Especially when you have all these low priced corner the market whores out there. :eek: :D
  18. Jeremy Shoning

    Jeremy Shoning Charter Member

    It has been a while since the last one. I am glad to hear the wheels turning for #2. I can certainly use a refresher. I would like to see another manufacturing facility. I would suggest bringing in some of the mainstream products that are being sold at most retail stores.Stanton and Kane come to mind. These products seem to be more difficult to install and are giving most installers fits. And of course anything I can do to help, you have my number.
    Shoning Floors
  19. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

  20. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    That is some very nice work Jeremy.

    Lately I got to thinking, after years of working nearly exclusively with woven materials, what information or skill is it that I believe is the most valuable?

    1.) An understanding of how wovens vary from tufted carpet and each other.

    2.) Stairway fabrication & finishing. An intricate stairway install can require more technical expertise than a several hundred yard job. Case in point; Jeremy's Runner Install. After all, once the fabrication work is done, it's just a basic install. But getting the fabrication done, now there's the challenge.

    3.) Decorative trims, hems, whippings, bindings & edge finishes.

    With kindest regards,


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