woven carpeting

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by Michael Masters, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. Michael Masters

    Michael Masters Learnin & Helpin Charter Member

    I have been installing carpet for 25 years, but do to my location(Dalton) I have only installed broadloom tufted products for the most part. I have some scrap pieces of very intricate woven goods in my basement from somewhere(?) that I have been experimenting with; mainly to make sure I could seam the products. Everything went well but I noticed that one woven product which has very fine yarn was difficult to seam seal with the thermo due to the fact that no matter what I did the yarn somehow was attracted to the tip of the gun and it loaded the tip of the gun with yarn. I did manage to get thermo on the backing and none on the upper portions of the yarn though. Seamed very well, no stretch needed too.
    I also noticed that the Orcon xu90 did not stick well to the backing of my test pieces, but a cheap Capitol tape and a Roberts tape stuck well. I always thought the xu90 was suppose to be a better tape.
     
  2. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'm still old school when it comes to woven. I still use latex to seal the edges.

    Have you tried the Kool Glide?

    Also XU 90 is a urethane tape I would think it would hold. But not seeing the backing I'm not sure. Some Wilton's have a very slippery backs that tape won't stick too. At the moment I couldn't tell you which one it is. Brain freeze. But that one we used to coat the seam line with contact to get holding power for hot melt. Maybe it was dry back Wilton or something like that.

    One thing about the urethane tapes is you have to let them cool longer than conventional tapes.

    Daris
     
  3. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    Great post Daris,

    I learned something from that...... Thank you!



    Rob
     
  4. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Thermoplastics sealers do not work on most woven carpets. Don't do it!

    The reason they do not work is, thermoplastics lack the viscosity to be absorbed into the fibers. You see, unlike tufted carpet, that has many small gaps and voids for the thermoplastic to fill, woven carpets are highly compacted through the beating process. Making absorption of the sealer into the actual fibers a requisite for a secure bond.

    Unlike tufted carpet, where the concern is locking the primary and secondary backings together, the objective of sealing woven material is to secure the weave structure itself. A structure that, by it's very design through the interlacing of perpendicular fibers, contains zero gaps, zero spaces or voids to benefit from thick, gooey thermoplastic. Again, the function of sealing woven material is to secure and contain the weave structure.

    The ultimate problem with thermoplastic sealers is, by the time we get enough sealer to actually secure the structure of the weave, we have too much applied to make an acceptable seam.

    Use a liquid sealer. My preference is M-267.

    Hope this helps.

    Dobby
     
  5. Michael Masters

    Michael Masters Learnin & Helpin Charter Member

    Thanks I appreciate the info.

    I did not try the koolglide. I may not have let the xu90 cool enough.
    I found it possible to run rows both directions, but impossible not to let alot of yarn loose when cutting. I am not sure if I actually cut the yarn or it just fell out when the seam was cut. It appears the latter as due to construction?

    I have worked with a few top notch installer over the years just not on wovens.

    I understand the reasoning on the thermo, that is my thinking on tight gauge tufted goods too.
     
  6. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    again I don't know which type woven you are working with but look on the back for a white thread running the length of the carpet[warp]. That thread or chain stitch has to stay on or it will let the yarn fall off.
    Can you post a picture of the back of the carpet?

    Daris
     
  7. Sean Moore

    Sean Moore Pro Member

    reading, reading, reading.

    I almost never do woven stuff.
     
  8. Michael Masters

    Michael Masters Learnin & Helpin Charter Member

    I'll try to get a pic, I have been real busy and sick with a bad cold the past couple of days.
     
  9. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    As always, Dobby gave you great information. Leaving the chain intact on length trims can be crucial (the white thread Daris talked about).

    Type of weave is another factor that will dictate how you approach trimming. As said, latex sealer are the only really viable sealing option (IMHO). Not having bought tapes for a long time, I can only add we used to carry non-silicon tapes (don't even know if silicon is still used!) for wovens. The largest quantities we installed commercially were velvets but there were a considerable amount of Ax and Wilton too. We did do a huge amount of knitted goods (Mohawk Duotron and Supertron) but these were predominantly direct glue down in schools and some health care facilities. Trimming edges of these products do have some very specific quirks.

    From reading previous posts you have made and the manner in which you are approaching this, I have every confidence that asking questions of some true experts here and doing some practice on your own, you will soon be confident in and qualified for installing these types of goods! Here's to your future success!!!
     
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