Will Contact Cement Dissolve Silicone or PSA Glue

Discussion in 'Flooring Potpourri' started by Luke George Hladky, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. Luke George Hladky

    Luke George Hladky Luke Sky Floorer

    I come across this site wile trying to look for information about whether contact adhesive will dissolve or eat away at Silicon and/or hard set and P. S. acrylics if In close proximity to one another. I've seen it done and would like to know for a vinyl cove job coming up. Im thinking IF your using a wet room silicone to secure a caping strip and cove fillet, and using contact adhesive to secure the vinyl cove, the silicone will weaken or loose it's bond from the gas build up of contact adhesive over a short time! I've always just used contact for securing capping and fillet. Can't go wrong that way. But it would be good to reduce the amount of solvents I'm breathing in!
    I also like the idea of using mapitape for flash cove but I just can't see it working long term! It's a bit of a joke actually. I'd maybe only try it for pre-formed internal and external.
    Has anyone used or had a problem with wetroom silicone or roof and gutter silicone for for caping? Or used mapitape for coving?
     
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti Senior Member

    Not sure how all the chemicals interact, or the bond by silicone, chemically which I see it not working in some applications.

    You may not have factored in plasticizer migration, it also dissolves adhesives. Kind of depends on formulas we don’t know by looking at products.
     
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  3. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Try it on a sample board of glue and silicone and see what it does. I think it might be too hot for it.
     
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  4. Luke George Hladky

    Luke George Hladky Luke Sky Floorer

    Yes of course! I forgot about the plasticizer migration. Iv actually seen silicon used (not sure what kind) but it was used to glue the cove on the wall as well so there was no contact at all! But I just think you cant go wrong with contact. I'll just have to invest in a full face mask on oxygen tanks.
     
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  5. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I use my carpet tacker to attach cove cap and stick. Also hot glue gun and double faced tape sometimes works. Never used any silicone or contact adhesive on cove, what are you installing? Maybe Incog will jump in here as he does a lot of that.
     
  6. Luke George Hladky

    Luke George Hladky Luke Sky Floorer

    No contact adhesive for coving? maybe your thinking of carpet. I'm installing Armstrong Accolade plus 2mm homogeneous vinyl to a bathroom and kitchen, coving 150mm high in bathroom with 32mm cove fillet and capping strip on top of cove. Kitchen is pencil cove on kickboards, no capping. It's all good anyway! You always have to install to the manufacturers instructions anyway otherwise you void warringty of the product. So if a customer watched you do a job and new you didn't install to standards, they don't legally have to pay you until it's done properly.
     
  7. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Luke I am not sure how much Armstrong Accolade you have laid so I could be talking out of turn That Armstrong Accolade is hard work compared to other brands of vinyl, as It tears , breaks etc
    There was a rest home done here recently by others of which we are replacing due to "splits" on the floor of the cove. The other layers used a cove fillet which was hollow so when objects were placed against the walls or trolleys hitting the walls the fillet collapsed causing the vinyl to split. Also where the other layers pencil coved the vinyl in the walk in showers it wasn't tight enough which has also all split
     
  8. Luke George Hladky

    Luke George Hladky Luke Sky Floorer

    Thanks John. Yeah it is hard work, it's what Iv been told to install. It's got the polymer imbedded through it so it resists mould which is an A. S. Requirement Im pretty sure. Iv notice how brittle it can get. Iv been thinking of caulking a nice thick bead of silicone behind pencil cove and all internal/external corners to eliminate or reduce the potential of that happening. Where told here in Australia that all showers and wet areas must have 32mm covefillet behind it. Ive been doing cove here and there since 2012 and haven't installed anything other than Armstrong accolade and safety floors but it's always been in medical centres where temperature is regularly maintained. Which I think would probably help in maintaining flexibility if the slabs not getting too cold.
    I'd definitely like to know if there is a homogeneous polymer embedded R10 and R12 vinyl thats easier to install tho please! Or something that you can give a 10year installation warringty with confidence.
    Thanks for the reply john.
     
  9. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti Senior Member

    CFR will know the compatibility with some of the materials. We use to contact Toeless base and strips to terrazzo where vct would start. It worked pretty well but times it did let loose.

    Epoxies and Urethanes can set hard but bonding to vinyl may not work, I’ve seen much Urethane separate easily. I believe you would have to talk to technical department direct to guide their recommendations.

    Example- tile setter I met that installed over sheet vinyl paper when I bought a tool from him said “it worked pretty well” uh no it all let loose when the sheet vinyl adhesive all failed in entire community of homes. Easy for me to remove though.

    Also watch the flammability issue with contact for pilot lights, stoves, water heaters etc. easy to forget when your concentrating on getting job done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  10. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    I can only offer installation procedures for commercial flooring products here in the U.S. Not much help on residential vinyl on the other side of the earth---------New Zealand, from what I'm reading. We use contact cement AND two-faced tape (+ staples) to fasten the cap metal. Silicone goes on the top after we're long gone, by the General Contractor. Cove stick gets stapled. Whatever adhesive is used on the flooring should apply to the wall surface.

    Obviously no help to the original poster other than an explanation of other ways to skin the cat.
     
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  11. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Looking at it, haven't seen any of that here although we dropped Armstrong years ago. What ever they say is what to glue with. See that it is Australian made product also.
     
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  12. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Luke this is what we are using here. A lot more layer friendly
    Commercial Wetroom Vinyl Flooring | Tarkett | Jacobsen NZ
    Which is also 2m wide and it doesn't have all that paper stuff rolled up with it
    That cove fillet I was talking about was a plastic type which is hollow in the centre. Using a solid type one would be better which would not "collapse
     
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  13. Luke George Hladky

    Luke George Hladky Luke Sky Floorer

    I'd love to install a tarkett commercial vinyl but they don't sell their products to Australian Floor Style Group for some reason! And that's the franchise we operate under. We can buy from forbo, Armstrong, Polyfloor, karndean, and just about every other company except tarkett!
    I can't believe they would design a hollow cove fillit!! That's dumb!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Cheap
    We used to use a solid wood fillet with no trouble
    It took me awhile to work out why vinyls were splitting along the bottom of the cove until I worked out the hollow cove was collapsing
     
  15. Luke George Hladky

    Luke George Hladky Luke Sky Floorer

    Yeh that's seriously bad if the urethane didn't hold! Did it happen in a bathroom?.. Iv herd that when the waterproofing is done , if they coated on an uneven surface you can end up with pooling of the membrane which doesn't dry out properly and then once the screeds put on top those pooling parts under the screed Are emitting solvent vapour which can percolate through the screed to the surface up to 9 months after the floors been installed and eat away at the glue causing the job to bubble up! Which is actually the reason which made me think if a solvent base contact adhesive would eat through silicone..
    Apparently a solvent base contact adhesive can eat through the waterproofing membrane in a shower as well. Hence why you have to use a solvent free contact in bathrooms.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  16. Luke George Hladky

    Luke George Hladky Luke Sky Floorer

    Yeh well you think the manufacturers would test their designs properly before selling things on a industrial scale! I wonder how much money they saved on material making it hollow ! I guess they need every dollar they can save ! They are after all on a tight budget making products from recycled materials Hahaha!
     
  17. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti Senior Member

    I like your perspective, keep it real and give em hell!
     
  18. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I got lucky today and was sent to replace your Accolade vinyl in a walk in show
    See the split in the vinyl Also the other layers ran the wall vinyl a couple of inches over the Accolade floor vinyl with that plastic cove fillet which is hollow
    Notice how well the wall vinyl is stuck to the floor vinyl. I was told to reglue the wall vinyl
    Didn't happen as the floor cove on the wall was all loose
    I get the good jobs :rolleyes: VINYL SPLIT.jpg
     
  19. Luke George Hladky

    Luke George Hladky Luke Sky Floorer

    That could cause massive water damage! Geez!
    So have you ever seen the tarkett wet room vinyl split?
    Is forbo any better?
    If it was a solid cove fillet it shouldnt do that. It's the new standard to run the wall vinyl 30mm over the cove with a diminishing strip behind it so there's less welds to split. But your also meant to chemical weld the raw edge as well. Did they chemical weld it?
    It looks like an old job!
    You get the good jobs aye! Lol! That's what happens when your good at your work Jon! Cause no one else can do it properly. And the usless installers get the easy jobs! It's a problem in the industry.
     
  20. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Laid it today
    Welded floor vinyl to the wall vinyl
    Do not look to close as I can't be bothered doing "patch up" jobs like this rather do new work BATHROOM.jpg
     
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