Which pad to use?

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by jakeosmom, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. jakeosmom

    jakeosmom New Member

    Hello. I'm new to searching for new carpet to replace the 11.5 yr old carpet in my home and have been lurking here for a few months to get the hang of things. I've been to a few flooring stores now and have brought home some samples, so I'm moving along!

    The first store I went to has the carpet I love for a price that was about $1.50 more per sq. ft. than I wanted to spend. But, that store had the special pet padding (Stainmaster Ultra Life Carpet Cushion) and I have a dog with bladder issues.

    The 2nd store I went to had "eh" carpet and the same padding.

    The 3rd store I went to had nice carpet for good prices, but rebond padding only (um, if I remember correctly, the salesperson suggested 1/2" 8 lb. or it might have been 6 lb. rebond).

    So, I've learned enough about the carpet, I think, to pull my own and have questions about the padding.

    1. For 2 kids (ages 11 and 9 who don't spill much, but rather grind stuff into the carpet and leave pens laying around) and the peeing dog, which pad is best? Is the special "pet padding" worth it?

    2. Is a foam-type pad better than rebond?

    3. My kids' rooms are over the garage which is blazingly hot in the summer and freezing cold in the winter. See question 2 for this application or does it matter?

    4. I've been looking at labels on the backs of the samples and they don't specify padding types. The salesperson today at the carpet store really was clueless and tried to talk me into liking the super thick rebond they used in one section of the store that was so bouncy it was like walking on a trampoline. Yuck. Plus I know that wears out carpet faster. How am I supposed to know which padding to use?

    Thanks for any help you can give me!

    Heather
     
  2. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    It would help if you told us what carpets you are considering. Cushions come in a variety of thicknesses and densities for a reason. Many standard residential type carpets can do very well with a rebond cushion that is 7/16" thick (I don't believe pad should be thicker) and 8# density. Half-inch, 6# is many times the standard pad a lot of dealers sell - I don't like it because it's too thick and too soft. Some carpets may require thinner pad (some berbers and commercial qualities).

    But you have special considerations: pets that don't pee where they should. You would need to prevent the liquid from going anywhere south of the surface of the cushion. Even if a special pad was installed for this, it had better be installed properly, or you will find urine getting into the pad seams and maybe even the edges next to walls or at doorway transitions.

    How does that protect the most valuable part of all this though? The carpet backing can sit in urine and become delaminated, damaging the carpet. You could have a strong odor, possibly discoloration and other problems.

    The occasional animal or child accident might be expected, but when it is a common occurrence, carpet may not be the flooring you should choose. Or maybe think about commercial type carpet squares. Buy extra so you can throw the severely damaged ones away and replace them. No pad, just use a special glue square or circle where the corners meet.

    Thanks for joining TFP.

    Jim
     
  3. polestretch

    polestretch Senior Member

    #1 The pet pad is fairly new to the flooring industry. I have yet to take up a "pet" pad to say "yea that stuff is well worth the extra bucks". If the dog is peeing in the center of the room, then I would think it would be worth it if the seams in the pad got taped and not stapled. If the dog is peeing around the walls, then the pee can seep under the pad along the tackstrip.

    #2 In 27 years of installing, I have yet to see a foam pad that is still in great shape during tear out. I have seen rebond pad that looked as good as the day it was put in.
    Hope this info helps. Good luck with your purchase!

    #3 I don't have any scientific facts, but would once again say that the rebond would be better. When installing over radiant heat you are told not to use rebond pad because of its insulating factor. I think that would help you in this case.

    #4 Most carpet manufacturers have stipulations on what thickness and density is required for their product. Most are no thicker than 1/2 inch and a minimum of 6 lb density.
     
  4. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    Jim answered the question pretty well, but I'd add that 8lb pad should be your minimum. It will extend the life of your carpet and not "break down" in high traffic areas as quickly as 6lb pad. The thickness depends on the carpet. If it's a thinner carpet (Berber, commercial, short plush) then you're probably best of with 3/8'' 8lb. For most everything else 7/16 is fine.
     
  5. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I agree pretty much with Jim. 1/2" is a little excessive although it can be used but expect it to show it is higher at the wall line. I would stick to the 7/16 8lb. Again the pet pad has to be installed a certain way. No staples and have the seams taped with a tape that don't let moisture through. But then the moisture sets in a puddle just under the carpet until it evaporates away. This is my opinion only that extra money is spent for nothing really.
    The urine is the real problem you have. It will ruin the carpet no matter what pad you use.
    There are carpets out there that won't let the moisture through but they are commercial type and are glue down products used in rest homes and such.

    Daris
     
  6. Jeff Needham

    Jeff Needham Pro Member

    I saw a test at market a few years back, that showed how spills cleaned out of carpet more thoroughly with the stainmaster pad. Looked convincing, but I agree that urine in the carpet is going to be an issue. Any chance of using a hard surface floor till the dog is gone? It was a good choice for me.
     
  7. Isabella Flooring

    Isabella Flooring Pro Member

    Best bet is SMARTSTRAND with Triexta with SMART CUSHION, using these products with hot water extraction would be great, The dog with the bladder problem will not harm this carpet, Just make sure you have a moisture barrier pad with what ever carpet you choose, Mohawks Smart Cushion has more virgin materials in than your regular rebound, Also if you choose SMARTSTRAND by mohawk along with smartcushion it will inhance your warranties, and MOHAWK will also GUARANTE this product on STAIRS. It is in BLACK & White from mohawk....The cushion usally retails around $0.67 square foot.....

    www.smartstrandchallenge.com
     
  8. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Brad, you are getting dangerously close to breaking the no-advertising rule. You seem to promote that same product for nearly every consumer topic that mentions carpet. It's getting old.
     
  9. Majwoody

    Majwoody Pro Member

    $.67/sf is alot of coin for something that's going to get peed on.
     
  10. ortiz34

    ortiz34 2nd generation Senior Member

    Go with the stainmaster pad with the spillguard
    no question in your situation, that is the first thing I would recommend if you were in my store
    What is the carpet name your looking at and the prices, we might be able to tell you if it's a good value
     
  11. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    This was getting way off topic so I moved some posts to a new business topic.
     
  12. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Overall I don't feel that the spill guard products provide the protection that consumers are led to believe.

    BUT I believe they are superior pads to the typical rebond pads without the spill guard protection.

    Anyone else notice how the pad quality of the typical rebonds has gone downhill? :(
     
  13. jakeosmom

    jakeosmom New Member

    Thanks, everyone! I would have thought that the consensus would be that the foam padding would be better since it's new technology, but I guess not. It didn't occur to me that having the padding sealed would leave a puddle sitting on top of it. While I do try to clean up wet spots as quickly as I can (I have a machine that purports to suck up wet stuff), the new carpet I'm looking at is darker and more textured than what we have and it's very possible that I won't see a spill or worse unless I see it happen.

    I'm looking at frieze style. The first one that we like the best is Gulistan Stainmaster Tactesse BCF nylon. I was quoted $4.12 sq. ft. (carpet only) for it, but I have to do 2324 sq ft. (my measurements, so off I'm sure). The next one we like is Mohawk Scotchguard Wear-Dated DuraSoft BCF nylon. I didn't get a quote on the Mohawk, but it says $3.80 sq. ft. on the sample board.

    We did entertain the idea of doing wood downstairs where our dog stays most of the time, but we live in a desert city and the thought of having to clean it daily to keep the dust from showing and keep the crumbs off and the dog hair from floating around is enough to nix that idea. And I've yet to see a laminate I like.

    Do they have literature in the store that shows what the padding thickness recommendation is for each carpet since it's not on the label? Or is it up to each consumer to know to call each manufacturer since it's not on their websites either? I'll ask about 7/16 when I take the samples back.
     
  14. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    7/16 is a good choice for standard living in residential. 3/8 is the max for commercial. But the CRI doesn't give a weight for either. In fact the CRI says max 7/16 for residential but 1/2 can be used. A little double talk there if you ask me but I don't make the rules. Oh! CRI stands for the Carpet and Rug Institue. They are the ones who makes the rules we are susposed to live by. CRI-105 is for residential and 104 for commercial. If you want to learn from them just Google CRI.

    Daris
     
  15. Isabella Flooring

    Isabella Flooring Pro Member

    Daris,

    104 105 doesnt exist the new version is this

    The CRI Carpet Installation Standard
    The Carpet and Rug Institute now offers a new, combined standard for carpet installation in both residential and commercial settings. The combined standard, which replaces CRI's 104 and 105 installation standards, is a definitive industry minimum installation standard, providing installers, retailers, specification writers, and building owners with principles and workmanship standards for residential installation, in addition to a detailed outline of proper procedures and terminology used in commercial specification writing, planning, layout and installation. The CRI Installation Standard also includes guidelines for floor preparation and installation in special areas, diagrams, and charts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2011
  16. Jeff Needham

    Jeff Needham Pro Member

    Please be careful with your home cleaning machine. they are terribly inefficient. They leave more moisture AND cleaning agents in your carpet than you want to believe. That can lead to rapid resoiling and deterioration of your carpet. You're right in thinking you may not find accidents that you don't see happen on a frieze style. A dense textured saxony would be a better choice for that. Or, one of the newer loop, cut loop styles, as they are short and tightly woven. Yes, the triexta fiber, whether duPobt sorona or otherwise, is very stain resistant. But, especially in a frieze, the spill, in this case URINE, will go to the back of the carpet, then through to the surface of the paddiing. And yes, the spill WILL sit on top of the pad as a puddle. BUT, it will also draw out more completely with a more efficient, or pro cleaner. With a standard bonded pad, the urine will go into the pad and you'll never get it out. The other issue is eliminating the odor. You know, the dogs nose is much sharper than ours and if it can smell urine at all, there's more chance they'll go back to the same spot and do it again.
    Our old dog, a couple of years back would need to go before I got home at noon, but couldn't go 2 more steps to the kitchen vinyl and pee, she'd go on the dining room carpet. Fianally ripped it out, replaced with Konecto. Was now able to keep both our dogs in the dining, kitchen and back hall. The dog still peed most days, but it was cleaned up in minutes. That dog's gone now but the Konecto is still here! Oops- the locking, glueless vinyl plank is still there.
     
  17. Isabella Flooring

    Isabella Flooring Pro Member

    And yes, the spill WILL sit on top of the pad as a puddle. BUT, it will also draw out more completely with a more efficient, or pro cleaner. With a standard bonded pad, the urine will go into the pad and you'll never get it out. The other issue is eliminating the odor.

    Liked how you put that JEFF.......
     
  18. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    No real difference between the new one and the old one. Parts of it still won't work in the real world.
     
  19. ortiz34

    ortiz34 2nd generation Senior Member



    You have either worked with complete incompetent material or your out of your mind. While their are some inferior moisture guard pads on the market I find it a game changer, no more stains wicking up after being cleaned and softbac slides over it like an air hockey table.
    win/win

    Also, I wouldn't install a rug in my house without a spill guard and I've lived and breathed fuzzy stuff for 34 years now
     
  20. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    I do like those features of the pad ortiz. :yesss:

    What I don't like and what I feel is misleading marketing is that you can turn a 2" pee spot into a 2 foot pee spot and end up destroying the backing of the carpeting. :(

    Consumers are not going to call a professional cleaner every time their pet has an accident.
    I would rather blot out a small spot than a large one.
     
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