What's the best way to go so I don't get Screwed..

Discussion in 'Solid and Engineered Hardwood Q&A' started by Eric White, Jul 8, 2019.

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  1. Eric White

    Eric White Member

    Hello,

    My Name is Eric i'm just a Consumer, I found this Forum from doing a google search.

    Question I have is:
    I paid a company to put Select grade white Oak in my home and i'm having a problem with the wood showing gaps (pictures attached). The floor was done on May 15, 2019 its Select Grade white Oak 5" wide boards nailed down on 3/4 plywood sub-floor on top of Concrete foundation. When it first started happening the owner of the company came over and tried to say this is normal for wood floors. The Brazilian cherry wood that they pulled up never did this so I feel he is trying my intelligence by saying its normal.
    He trying to say he will come fix it by just putting wood putty in the cracks and sanding but I was told that's a bad way to fix cause it will crack again.. When I told the owner this his reply was "No matter what we do its gonna crack like this cause its normal".
    I think the cause was he didn't let the wood come into the house and acclimate to the house. The wood was delivered and they immediately started installing and when I asked why he didn't do that cause that's what they did with the other wood I had he said " That he was gonna install then let it acclimate after installation."
    So I was wondering what's the best way to fix this issue I was told only way to do it right is to pull it up and redo it..

    Thank you
     

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  2. Dan Schultz

    Dan Schultz Certified Wood Floor Inspector Charter Member

    Welcome to TFP, Eric.

    You mentioned plywood over a concrete foundation and previous wood floors. Is this to mean concrete foundation with pier and beam support or a concrete slab? If a slab, was the plywood removed and replaced with new?

    Does your installer have record of moisture content readings at the time of installation?

    How do you control your interior environment? Do you operate a humidifier or dehumidifier?

    What part of the country are you in?

    Do you know the manufacturer of the white oak?
     
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  3. Eric White

    Eric White Member

    Hello and thanks for the fast response..

    Yes its a concrete slab, and we had beautiful Brazilian Cherry woods floors in the house for 13 years and never had a moisture problem.

    Yes they replaced the plywood even though they said the old plywood was perfectly fine no moisture was found. Also there is a cloth like moisture barrier between the plywood sub-floor and the floor.

    Not Sure if they did a moisture reading in the house before install.

    We have Central Air and Heating in the house No Humidifier or Dehumidifier i think the air Handler from the AC does that not sure.

    I live in Florida

    I do not know the manufacture but i'll get that info tomm. when the owner of the company come look at the floor again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  4. Eric White

    Eric White Member

    Update:

    My wife said yes they did a moisture test before installing the floor..

    Also I checked my thermostat history a d for the last almost year my house has been a constant 77 degrees and 46% humidity.

    The maker of the wood my wife think was a company called Majestic.

    Hope this helps and my question is would it be proper to just wood putty and sand?
     
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  5. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Your flooring probably came from someplace other than the USA, but most hardwood should be acclimated prior to installation. There's no such thing as "acclimation after install." That's some bullshit they told you because they care more about the $$$ than doing the job right. It looks to me, from your pictures, that they already filled all the board edges with some kind of putty. It looks like it's all cracking as the wood dries out (which is why you acclimate a wood floor before installation).

    If it were me, I'd be making a big stink until they pulled all that flooring out and issued a complete refund. Then research the flooring retailers and installers in your area to find people that actually know the products and care about your satisfaction.
     
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  6. Eric White

    Eric White Member

    Thanks for all the quick replys..
    The owner of the company came by today a d he wasnt happy with the installation. He said they normal install and let the wood acclimate after install... so his fix he said was gonna be to fill all the cracks then sand the entire floor again and reseal.. but after listening to you all responses I think I'm gonna insist he pull it all up and refund or redo..

    Thank you all..
     
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  7. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Nice that you have a documented history. Honeywell sends me an email monthly of my AC usage also average temperature outside was 4 degrees hotter than last year. (Citrus County)
     
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  8. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    Your problem is only going to get worse with time. Replacement with proper acclimation is what you need to remedy your situation.
     
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  9. Dan Schultz

    Dan Schultz Certified Wood Floor Inspector Charter Member

    Keep in mind, we are now in the summer, more humid time of the year. This is when wood floors are expected to expand.

    What do you think might happen when we get into the winter months when heat will be operating? That time of the year is when wood floors get serious about shrinking.
     
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  10. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Hopefully you paid by credit card???
     
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  11. Eric White

    Eric White Member

    Update:
    The Owner and his son came over and actually inspected the work and was very apologetic and say they didnt understand why they wood did that and they have installed the same wood in multiple houses the same way and never had an issue. But after inspection they said that putty and sanding wouldnt be the proper thing to do and they suggested they pull it all up and redo this time putting the wood in the house and waiting a week or more before to actually install it.. He said my AC unit is very efficient in pulling the humidity out the air and he will test the wood until it gets to a 8 in moisture before installing it..
    So far I'm very happy and impressed with the customer service and I actually feel they wanna get it right and make me happy..
    Thank you guys for your replys and suggestions that helped alot.. I'll keep you updated..
     

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  12. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Customer service is very important, but so is knowledge of your products and proper installation. One doesn't necessarily equal the other.

    NWFA Wood Flooring Installation Guidelines and Methods:pdf:
     
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  13. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Uh Oh, you slapped “the Book” at em Jim!
     
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  14. Steve Olson

    Steve Olson Hardwood/Laminate Guru Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    They are going to wait until the new wood gets to 8? Most wood is delivered at around 6, and since your wood is shrinking, I think they might be going in the wrong direction? I'd want to know the MC of the plywood laid over the slab, and wait until the plywood and hardwood get into balance, no?
     
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  15. Eric White

    Eric White Member

    When they come to place the wood in the house to acclimate I'll ask for the MC of the plywood and what the current MC of the wood coming in the house is at the start and let you guys know..

    Awesome!! I will be looking thru this at work today!! Thank you
     
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  16. Eric White

    Eric White Member

    Hello they just delivered the new wood the MC of the wood was 10.3 he said and the ply wood was 11.. dont know if that helps but he said hes gonna wait a week and retest.. he also said this wood was sitting in florida and the other wood was just delivered directed to my house from a different distributor from up north if that makes a difference.
     
  17. Steve Olson

    Steve Olson Hardwood/Laminate Guru Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'd wait until they are both the same reading, keep track of your room temp and humidity during the process, and it's important to keep what ever system you had running in operation after the install. Keep the room temp humidty and MC of the wood and subfloor readings in case of any future problems.
    I like Mikes system, that provides him with a monthly read out. Keeping track of those readings for a year after the install is a really good idea.
     
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  18. Dan Schultz

    Dan Schultz Certified Wood Floor Inspector Charter Member

    Do you know the manufacturer of the new product? This becomes ever so more important because the manufacturer's installation instructions, care and use guide, and warranty take precedence over NWFA guidelines.
     
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  19. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I like the SensorPush monitoring system. @50$ each sensor (Amazon)then you get the free app which is awesome. Wagner makes one but think it’s @ 80$
    Sensor 1 in attic. If I had a crawlspace or basement one would be hanging in there as well.
    Looking into ones for slabs.

    SensorPush Wireless Thermometer/Hygrometer for iPhone/Android - Humidity & Temperature Smart Sensor with Alerts. Developed and Supported in The USA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AEQ9X9I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_J9CkDb0JH1FER
     

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  20. Eric White

    Eric White Member

    Update:

    Hello all,
    Well they delivered the wood and gonna let it sit in the house for a week or more he tested the wood and said the MC was an 10 on the wood and an 11 on the plywood floor i think he said he will retest in a week and will install when both match to about an 8.
    He also.said he thinks what's happen is the wood he ordered for the house before was delivered straight from a mill up north and prob had a high MC so when they didnt let it acclimate that's what he thinks happen. The new wood has been here in Florida awhile and is alot dryer he said..

    Thanks again for all your help I think this information and me speaking like I knew what I was talking about and mentioning the NWFA made him a little more willing to work and get it right..

    Thanks
     

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