Vinyl tiles over existing Vinyl sheet?

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by kozmic1520, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. kozmic1520

    kozmic1520 New Member

    We are redoing the entire house. I was going to do it myself but my dealer made me an install deal I couldn't refuse. We are doing most of the house in Adura vinyl plank, and the kitchen and bath in a similar material, ceramic look vinyl tile. I'm doing the tear out work to save some money, the carpet is no big deal, but I asked about the vinyl sheet in the kitchen and bath and was told to leave it alone if it is in good shape. But I have read that the fake grout lines in the sheet we are covering "could" show through the new flooring if they are "deep". Well I don't want anything like that to happen. I was told if it is "too deep" I could skim coat it with self leveling to fill the low spots.
    My worry is that the installer may chose to not skim it, or not remove it, and the lines will show through. How deep is "too deep"?

    All are Concrete floors.
    What is the excepted method?
     
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I can't say how others work, what are manufacturer instructions for the product over sheet vinyl? The vinyl could contain asbestos, therefor they can't remove. The skim coat may not be the right mix. I personnally would want it skim coated correctly, but actually I would wa, I remove vinyl if not asbestos and grind adhesive off, I am then bonding pressure sensitive adhesive directly to slab or Ardex feather finish. That is how we roll.
     
  3. kozmic1520

    kozmic1520 New Member

    The house is only 6 years old There is no asbestos.
    I am tempted to tear it off and fight the glue.

    Oh, and all of it is glue down material.
     
  4. Jim Decker

    Jim Decker Pro Member

    glue over embossed surface

    As long as the existing vinyl is adhering well you can use a product from Armstrong Embossing leveler engineered precisely for this situation. Believe me even a small pebble will transfer thru. For anything not to transfer through it must be as smooth as a babies butt.
     
  5. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    Adura should never be directly adhered over any type of resilient flooring for the best result. The only time it's really acceptable to go over existing resilient is if it is for a safety concern (asbestos). If you choose to install over the vinyl for the sake of convenience or to save cost and there is a problem (bond failure, indentation) you assume the liability. I've dealt with Mannington for over 20 years and this is the position they have taken. They make a great product and they are a reputable company. Just making you aware of their process.

    The vinyl you have down should be removed. Most current adhesives should be water soluble. Scrape up and remove as much of the vinyl as you can, then use hot - the hotter the better- soapy (couple caps of dish soap) water to soak the remainder. It should loosen and break down the remaining material so that you can scrape up the rest. Let it dry out good and away you go!

    At any rate good luck with your project!
     
  6. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Here is beginning of removal of a few layers of carpet adhesive. Building constructed in 80's. Going from roll carpet to carpet tiles.

    Your adhesive is very thin, probably a little more than film. Deteriorated from alkaline. Pull a small portion up see the time it takes, then multiply by footage. Installers work with 4" scrapers bit know how to handle large footage.
     

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  7. kozmic1520

    kozmic1520 New Member

    So when talking about vinyl plank, is glue down or click down the better choice? They were hot and heavy on selling me click together until they found out the one I wanted was out of stock, then glue down suddenly became the best.
     
  8. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I assumed it was glue down, floating would have been fine leaving sheet vinyl down and smearing a skim coat. Adura is real thick, though it still may conform with grout line telegraphing.

    Are they now saying since its glue down they should remove vinyl?
     
  9. kozmic1520

    kozmic1520 New Member

    All the areas that had carpet are getting Adura Plank, the areas that have sheet vinyl are getting EarthWorks LVT. They wanted to put the EW over the existing sheet vinyl, I don't like that so I am tearing it all out before they get here.
    It's ALL glue down products.
    But when I was shopping for materials the supplier told me click down was the way to go, until he found out it was out of stock, then he was singing a different tune and said glue down was better.

    We are having ceramic tile laid here at my plant, the installer doing that ceramic tile install tells me today that I should have gone click down not glue down plank, AND, never put LVT in a bathroom, always go with ceramic???

    This is giving me a headache.
     
  10. SteveG

    SteveG Pro Member

    We put a fair amount of LVT in bathrooms, it's fine. Of course the ceramic guy likes ceramic best.
     
  11. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    Both glue down and click type products have their upside and their downside.

    Glue down products are not as easy to install because you have to deal with an adhesive. This is a slower process and is not as DIY friendly. On the plus side, adhesives can overcome some minor slab moisture issues up to a certain point. Depending on the manufacturer they can be waterproof from the top down. They don't allow things to get underneath of them and cause mold or mildew issues.

    Click products are typically considered easier to install for a DIY'er because they don't require an adhesive. They are easier to remove when you want to change out flooring in the future. However, they are more prone to buckling, much like laminate, if they get pinched or bound somewhere when installed. They don't handle heavy objects such as pool tables, or pianos well and heavy rolling loads can cause the floor to become unfastened causing board separation or gapping. They are also sensitive when exposed long term to direct sunlight related to thermal expansion and contraction.

    That being said it's really more situational related to the type of install and the type of job site conditions you are dealing with whether one is better than the other. Most of the basic things remain the same. You still need to do proper floor prep with both products.

    Hope this helps. Also, and this is not a knock on tile guys, but most of them don't do resilient on a regular basis and may not be as up to date on what is really going on in LVP as some of the flooring folks on this thread.

    Again, my recommendation is to tear out the old sheet and install directly to a properly prepared substrate. Why have extra layers in the sandwich that are each another point for possible failure?
     
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