Using Private Inspector to Evaulate Carpet

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by ea2016, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. ea2016

    ea2016 Member


    I recently had new carpet installed that does not feel anything like the carpet sample I used when selecting it. At first, the carpet retailer absolutely agreed with me, but quickly changed her mind after speaking with their carpet rep. They opened a claim and Shaw Industries tested the carpet and just concluded that it passed all construction tests. They only sent me a letter denying the claim, so I have no idea what they actually found when testing. I still disagree and don't know what to do now. Is it even worth my effort/money to hire a private inspector to test both samples and challenge their claim? How do I go about doing that?

    Does anyone know how much variance in specs is still considered acceptable? I did have just the installed carpet tested out of curiosity and found out it had a 10.4% less stitch rate. Which is probably why my carpet is showing indents much more than the sample did. Is this really considered acceptable by carpet manufacturers?

    I'm so disappointed in my new carpet and I don't know what to do now! Any insight or suggestions would be amazing!
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Do you have the sample you ordered from? Usually measurements would suffice to distinguish one carpet from another. An Engineers scale is precise enough, measure one square inch both directions to determine the tuft number, then the height.

    We don't know what you ordered, a lot of people see so many samples, they get confused on what they actually picked, including color.

    Don't hire the inspector hastily, get knowledge first.
  3. ea2016

    ea2016 Member

    Hi Mike, thanks for replying! I actually had a carpet sample in my possession. They had sent me a larger sample when I was trying to decide on color. When I couldn't figure out why the installed carpet seemed so different...I went looking for this sample in my garage. The two carpets felt completely different and that is when we went back to the retailer with our concern.

    Unfortunately, the carpet retailer took this sample and sent in to the lab, along with the sample board and a piece of my installed carpet. She said she'd give me a new sample if I wanted to have this tested myself.

    I did send a piece of my installed carpet to a lab that charged only $50 to test that one sample. I'm still confused on the results though and probably need to have it compared to a carpet sample to fully understand the difference. I'm just comparing it to the published carpet specs for that carpet.

    Here are the product specs from a Shaw representative for the carpet I ordered.

    Tigressa Worldly Softness III

    11.6 stitches per inch
    1/10 gauge
    58.5 face weight
    0.64 pile height

    This is what an independent testing company came back with (as I stated before, I only had the installed carpet tested).

    10.4 stitches per inch
    1/10 gauge
    58.1 face weight
    .63 pile height

    I don't quite understand how if the stitches per inch were 10.3% less and pile height/gauge were fairly accurate, then why wasn't the face weight 10% less? Don't these specs all have an effect on face weight?

    Maybe it wasn't an accurate test...
  4. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    The "feel" may be due to the type of fiber, not sure what you mean by the term. I'm just putting in my 2 sense.

    I'm not up to date on the different fibers nor do I understand "soft" for flooring I like last forever, basically I like everything to last forever or dam near.

    So, all I have is, is the fiber the same as sample, or did they "blend" it. Saw on nightly news about fake lamb at restaurants. They were sold as lamb, but some was Beef, Chicken, or Goat in New York and L.A., personally I don't like lamb, I'll take beef for my "Yeer O"
  5. ea2016

    ea2016 Member

    By 'feel' I'm referring more to the density of the carpet. The fibers barely moved when I rubbed my hand on the sample. On the installed carpet, it moves considerably more and then leaves a huge indent.

    I agree with you on soft carpet. This is actually a soft fiber carpet and I'm so upset I chose it. I can already tell it's not going to hold up well.
  6. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    This is a situation I do not deal with, the carpet will hold up, you maybe just do not like the appearance and are basing on previous carpet that didn't show foot prints etc. Other retailers here should relay their experiences with carpet that homeowner purchased and instantly dislikes. I do not know how this is resolved. I assume you've done a large area?
  7. Mike Mahoney

    Mike Mahoney Pro Member

    Sounds like roll-crush, happens all the time with new cut pile installations.

    The carpet pile needs time to stand up.
    Vacuuming and humidity speeds the process.
  8. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Just seen this. Don't have time to go into all of the tech info. But if you do not like it? Tigressa is a Carpet one or flooring America name. If for any reason you don't like it they have to change it at no cost to you.
  9. JPfloor

    JPfloor Pro Member

    A 1/10 gauge carpet should have approximately 10 stitches per inch but it's not unusual for the stitch rate to vary slightly. Based on the specs of your test results I'd have to agree with the Manufacturer that the carpet you have is as the sample represented.

    Attached Files:

  10. ea2016

    ea2016 Member

    I understand gauge and agree that there is the correct number of stitches (10 per inch) running across the width of the carpet. But the stitch rate has 1.2 less tufts running the length. That's 10% less tufts per sq inch than what it was supposed to have which I'm assuming is why it crushes easier and feels less dense. Is that acceptable based on industry standards?

    Yes,it was carpet one. Unfortunately, this was a beauty guarantee replacement. Ugh. And I was very careful when selecting this carpet. I told the rep i didn't like to see carpet indents and didn't want to feel the seams/staple indents like I could with previous carpet. I stepped on so many samples and even vacuumed them. The sample for this carpet showed a slight footprint (more like shading) but nothing like the indent I'm getting with the one that was installed. My 20 pound dogs footprints look like animal tracks in the snow bc his claws separate the fibers and they don't bounce back. I'm pretty disappointed right now.
  11. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Carpet samples are handled by great numbers of people, causing them to fluff and relax. Newly installed carpet has had only a couple of people touch it. It will look and feel different after a month of traffic and vacuuming. Samples aren't stretched tight and aren't large enough for anyone to really tell what it will feel like after being stretched tight over the selected cushion - and some pads also are stretched.

    I would never send carpet off to the manufacturer if I thought it missed the specifications it should have met, unless the differences or defect was obvious to anyone who casually glanced at the material. I would find a testing lab to send it to and then send the test materials and the report to the retailer as part of a claims application. Let the retailer deal with the manufacturer.
  12. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    Samples are often steamed to blossom the yarn.
  13. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Change it out and be done with it.
  14. ea2016

    ea2016 Member

    I picked up a new sample of the carpet from the retailer today and I still think it feels noticeably different (less dense) when rubbing my hand over it. I think I'm going to eat the cost and have it independently tested. At least then I'll have actual specs to either move on from this or challenge the manufacturers claim. Anyone know a good testing lab?

    KWfloors, wish I could just change it out and be done with it! Not sure I want to spend another $8k on carpet though...
  15. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    Profesional Testing Laboratory in Dalton, GA. I used them several times when I was doing inspections. 706-226-3283
  16. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    10% less carpet. Did they charge you 10% less?

    The delivered product should be an exact match to the delivered product. Yes, tolerance must be given to some variation between production runs but 10% seems like a real reach.

    You need an attorney and you need to quit dancing around this issue because it is clear from your words that what is on your floor will not be bringing peace and joy into your life. Either dig in and fight or let it go.

    Hope this helps.

    With kindest regards,

    David Hunt
  17. ea2016

    ea2016 Member

    haha David Hunt....My carpet is not bringing me peace and joy! If something pisses me off, its really hard for me to just let it go. I'm totally going to fight this one. Even if Carpet One were to offer me 10% off, I don't think that would fix this situation for me. If I wanted a 10% less quality/cheaper carpet, I would have selected that type of carpet from the beginning and paid less. I could have easily chosen the Worldly Softness II instead of the Worldly Softness III.

    Here is an update in case anyone is interested:

    I just received the independent test results from the Professional Testing Laboratory that was recommended. $250 later and I now have full proof this was not all in my head and I feel completely vindicated! Here are the stats:

    Store Sample:
    Face weight: 57.1 oz
    Pile Height: .61
    Stitch Rate: 12
    Density: 3,370

    Installed Carpet:
    Face weight: 52.8 oz
    Pile Height: .59
    Stitch Rate: 11
    Density: 3,222

    From my understanding, anything less than a 7% variance is considered industry standard, correct? The difference between these two carpet's face weights was 7.5%. And this was just a random sample of this carpet type that Carpet One said I could use if I chose to independently test. I am fairly certain the actual big carpet sample board I used when selecting this carpet more closely matched the manufacturer spec of 58.5 oz...which would place this variance at 9.7%. No wonder there was a visible difference!

    Carpet One/Shaw agreed to show me their test results that they used when choosing to deny our claim. It was practically a joke. It didn't include Face weight...which isn't that the main measurement used when determining if two carpets are different?

    Here are their test results -

    Dealer Carpet Specs:
    Tuft height: .64
    Stitches per 6 inches: 69
    Gauge: 1/10

    Customer Carpet:
    Tuft height: .66
    Stitches per 6 inches: 67
    Gauge: 1/10

    I'm going to send my independent reports to Carpet One and hopefully they will finally take my side and challenge Shaw's claim denial. If they won't, I will be hiring a lawyer. This honestly feels like a bait and switch with some shaddy test results on Shaw's part to cover it up!
  18. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    I'm not surprised that Shaw denied the claim. I am surprised that you are getting the run around from a Carpet One dealer.
  19. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

  20. ea2016

    ea2016 Member

    This was actually a beauty guarantee replacement already...which is probably why Carpet One is no longer on my side and I'm basically fighting this alone. If the store won't cooperate now that have actual differing factual data, I will try calling CCA Global. Thanks for the recommendation!!

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