Urban Floor engineered wood finish peeling

Discussion in 'Hardwood and Laminates Q&A' started by chupekm, Sep 13, 2008.

  1. chupekm

    chupekm Member

    Hi, we just had our engineered wood floor installed (Urban Floor) by a professional installer just only a month and a half ago. We are now experiencing the same problem of top finish peeling. The manufacturer says it is caused by moisture underneath the planks. It doesn't seem to make sense. I think it is caused by the way they (manufacturer) applied the coating (aluminum oxide???). Does anybody have any experience with Urban Floor?:(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2012
  2. Nick Arrera

    Nick Arrera Traitor

    Pre finished , or Site finished ?
     
  3. chupekm

    chupekm Member

    It is pre-finished santos mahogany hand scraped.
     
  4. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Not familiar with them but here's a link

    ::::::::: Urban Floor – Walk on Heaven, Upscale Design Collections of Hardwood Flooring :::::::::

    Should be covered by their warranty??

    ::::::::: Urban Floor – Walk on Heaven, Upscale Design Collections of Hardwood Flooring :::::::::

    What type of installation was used?
    What is the substrate and area of the home it is installed?

    Who has inspected the floor?

    Most likely it is a finish problem and they are trying to get out of the warranty.
    You will probably need a qualified inspector to battle them.
     
  5. chupekm

    chupekm Member

    The floor was glue down on concrete. The Urban Floor salesman came to the house to check it and was buffled himself, he said he will show the pictures of some of the planks to his inspector. Talked to the salesman, Friday and he said that based on the pictures, the inspector concluded that it was caused by water migration. I asked the salesman if I can speak to the inspector and have the inspector come to the house to do a physical inspection so he can make a logical conclusion instead of just basing it on the pictures. Salesman will not give me his phone no. and said he will tell the inspector to call me on Monday. I hope he will. I just do not want to go through the mess of getting my own inspector and spending a lot of money when all they have to do is cover the cost to replace about 15 planks. There is a 25 year warranty on their floors, so why giving me so much trouble?
     
  6. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Because warranties don't mean squat in the flooring world. :(
    All they are is marketing gimmicks unless backed up by a quality company. :(

    Obvious your salesperson knows very little about flooring and an inspector CANNOT make a moisture determination based on photos.

    What does the installer have to say about the situation?
    Did you hire the installer directly or did the retailer supply him?

    Was a moisture test conducted at time of install and what were the results?
    Was a moisture barrier recommended? One should always be used when gluing to concrete in my opinion but few people wish to pay for them.
    Was this on,below or above grade?
     
  7. Kman

    Kman Tile Expert I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    I'm no inspector, but I would think if enough moisture was coming up through the entire plank to make the finish peel off, then the planks would be swelled up enough to blow them off the floor.

    If the peeling finish is localized to a particular area and a select few planks, the more likely scenario would be that there was something wrong in the production process.

    While you don't want this situation to drag on forever, I wouldn't get in a big rush to wrap all this up as soon as possible. In time, you may find other problem areas that need to be addressed. :cool:
     
  8. chupekm

    chupekm Member

    The installer wants the manufacturer to pay part of the repair. The floors are installed on grade, family room and dinette. Kitchen floor is tile. There was no moisture testing and no moisture barrier put in before gluing (as far as I know). It was not remmended by the installer. I would have paid extra if it was recommended. We had Pergo laminate flooring before this and decided to replace it with engineered wood because of the real wood effect. We never had a problem with Pergo. We had spills from my 2 kids and never peeled or buckled, etc. All I want to know is the cause of the finish peeling of and if there is something I can put on it so it won't get worst in the future. It has only been less than 2 months.
     
  9. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Was a moisture barrier used under the Pergo? Moisture barrier would have been a sheet of poly or it may have been built into the pad used under the laminate.

    Just took a look at their install instructions and this doesn't sound like a very good company. :eek:
    Plastic mat test and/or meter test but confusing/poor instructions. Common ploy so they can deny claims. :(

    If this was a moisture issue the wood should be exhibiting more problems than just finish issues like KMan said.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2008
  10. Nick Arrera

    Nick Arrera Traitor

    Do you have any photos you can post ? You always take moisture readings before you install , and some others .. You just may need a independent Inspector ..
     
  11. tony lamar

    tony lamar Charter Member

    I'm with K Mart on this one. A wood floor with moisture issues would most likely cup before the finish would peel off.
     
  12. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    I also would not be too eager to hire an inspector who makes a pronouncement without seeing the job first. Sounds to me like the salesperson may have some undue influence with his reporting.

    Agree with stullis, the installation directives are pretty lame. Very few manufacturers allow sheet test or a moisture meter as a sole protocol for testing. They simply are not reliable enough.

    A bit more description about how they occur int eh floor, i.e. clustered, occasional in a section of the rooms or scattered throughout the site. Howe many feet in the entire job? How many lineal feet are showing the problem? Do you have any attick stock materials?

    Regarding an inspection, bear in mind if you have followed their maintenance directives (and I would truly advise not saying you have if you have not) this condition cannot arise form your use of the floor. The culpable party would and should be on the hook for the cost of any inspection fee you pay. You may have to yell and jump up and down a little, but you will get this money back.
     
  13. Floorguy

    Floorguy The Living Dead Charter Member Senior Member

    Do you have pets??
     
  14. chupekm

    chupekm Member

    Thank you all for your advice. I will have to wait on it and see if more planks will have the same problems. So far there are about 15 planks scattered, a few under the dinette, some by the tv room under the couch and a few in the open area close to the tv. I do have some pictures I will post. Most of the peeling are on the planks that have small cracks or where the manufacturer put a filler on some of these planks. There is one plank where the peeling is around what seemed like a filler on the wood.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2012
  15. chupekm

    chupekm Member

    No, I do not have pets.
     
  16. Kman

    Kman Tile Expert I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    1. Are certain planks peeling, with the ones right next to them not peeling?

    2. If #1 is 'No', then is the peeling confined to a certain area, or spread out in several areas across the room?

    I'm trying to get a better picture of what it all looks like so I could.......Hey! Could you post a picture?
     
  17. Floorguy

    Floorguy The Living Dead Charter Member Senior Member

    It is pretty consistent with "the path of least resistance" rule.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a moisture issue from below.

    It is an engineered, so what happens with moisture and engineered. Cupping in solid, what are the topical signs for moisture in engineered.


    Why were the cracked boards even installed, again??? Did you have enough for culling??
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2012
  18. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    chupekm posted a link to another site. Because the member is still new, the post went to the moderation queue and I just validated it. Here are cropped and resized versions of the images so you can get a better look at the problem.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Kman

    Kman Tile Expert I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    How long was this wood flooring at your house before it was installed, and where in the house was it kept prior to installation?
     
  20. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Floorguy: can you explain "path of least resistance"? I have not heard this applied to wood before.

    I would expect this appearance, if moisture and occurring the grain to be from the surface, not form the bottom up. If coming from the bottom up, how can this pattern manifest?

    I don't see filler in these shots. Chupekm, you also must understand filling is perfectly acceptable for a manufacturer and virtually every sliced or peeled veneer is filled. Particularly with rotary peeled, checking is created by the cutting process. Most manufacturers and at one one wood flooring association would like to deny this. At least one manufacturer state on their inspection requests: Face checking is not a manufacturing defect.

    Good question about the storage history of the floor, although this manufacturer/seller states 48 hours is the required acclimation period.

    I could not determine from the Urban website if this is an import (being Santos, I presume it is). Asian and European manufacturers use a different for applying nano technology (alum oxide, titanium, silica, etc.). With Asian products, who knows what kind of urethane formulation they are using. Based on experience, I would say the cheapest they can buy.

    A strange manifestation of a problem and one I wouldn't care to make a conclusion about without personally inspecting it.
     
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