Union Wages

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by eaadams, Jan 12, 2015.

  1. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    My deal with any installer, if you need a tool or if a tool would make you more efficient, happy or produce a better quality work product, I will buy it and you can use it on any job. They just have to tell me. Also I believe that union / prevailing wage rules say that the installer is NOT required to supply any equipment.

    Absolutely agreed! That is what I like about prevailing wage. Rates are set for everyone by the union (at union rates whether or not they are a union shop) and that way everyone gets paid a fair rate. I recently had a few projects down in LA / Palm Springs go to a shop out of Texas who plays all sorts of games with wages. Drives me nuts. Gives the guys trying to do right a bad name. As usual the few bad apples ruin it for everyone.

    Yea I do that. Everyone gets a % of end of year profit. The last two years no one has gotten anything since I've been loosing money. But the hope is in good years (when everyone is slammed and hassled) they will know it is for a good reason.
  2. OrangeOrcon

    OrangeOrcon Resilient Journeyman

    Union rules say we cant have any powered tools or tools that cant fit in our tool box. The shop doesnt have to supply your hand tools although the smaller, good shops do sometimes.
  3. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    In Chicago the union, if I am correct, is Install / Carpenters? In my part of California it is part of IUPAT. But I don't know the rules there. Just try to play by them whenever I can. Incognito will I am sure straighten my ass out.
  4. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    INSTALL isn't a union........it's an installation training program funded by union (and other sources (fed, state) I think) money

    The Carpenters in each local East of the Mississippi would have their own contracts that can determine what tools the shops/journeyman have to furnish-----same as the IBPAT (painters)

    It's all a COLLECTIVE BARGAINING process. So pretty much every year and in every local bargaining unit those kinds of trivial details fluctuate.

    Picture the bargainers at the table. The owners want straight time-----nights and weekends. The union counters with..........WHATEVER. It's all on the table. When you ISOLATE any singular aspect of the contract it can really seem absurd, abusive, corrupt. You have to understand a union contract as a compromise.

    My buddy was a bus driver. He got TRIPLE TIME on Christmas Day and some other holidays. Seems crazy. But what they traded against that was SPLIT SHIFTS with a very long down time. For example he'd go in at 5AM and work til 9AM. Then he's OFF THE CLOCK from 9AM to 1PM. He's back on the clock from 1PM to 6PM. Now he's been downtown at the bus depot for 13 hours but the contract he's signed onto only pays him 9 hours that day.

    PLEASE think about insane compromises like this any time you hear the one sided arguments about ANY union contract and that goes for both sides. It simple doesn't make a lick of sense to try to isolate any singular item out of a 40-page contract and try to see it as fair or unfair outside the context of the trade-offs those items were made against.

    Getting back on topic I'm at the point where if I have to furnish much more in the way of truck/tools for the shop it's simply not worth being a union worker anymore. That's MY point of bringing up the extreme expense of the Turbo Tools. They're worth the money. But not when they come out of my paycheck.
  5. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    Send this to your buddy. On-call workers entitled to pay for all hours spent at job, court rules - LA Times

    Re the tools, where do you draw the line? Is it the tool box rule? Seems to me the tools are the cheap thing. If it saves you 2hrs on a days work, just about any tool (at fair wage rates) pays for itself. Hard for people to not be peny wise, pound foolish.
  6. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Collective Bargaining Agreements supercede state and federal labor laws like the one outlined in that article. So our union reps can negotiate anything they want, even if it violates those kinds of otherwise comprehensive laws. They are not constrained to any of those rules.

    Besides for that they weren't on call, required to wait on site for an assignment. They had specific route assignments. Frequently that involved two different routes per day with WHATEVER down time in between they were assigned. Actually, the way it worked was based on seniority they "bid" on the various routes. So they actually wrote their own ticket to some extent. Their CONTRACT only requires they be paid for the hours on the bus. They were guaranteed a minimum weekly check-----so that's very different than construction union contracts. No work-no pay, that's our deal.

    Where do I draw the line? As you say it's complicated. I draw the line where it's not worth getting up for work in the morning because my paycheck minus taxes, SS, UI insurance, union dues, truck expenses, tools, work clothes and such DIVIDED BY MY TIME no longer makes this a decent days pay.

    it's a curse to have remedial math skills in this racket

    I can do elementary math in my head.......I don't need a calculator

    ALL the monthly, quarterly, annual and intermittent expenses run through my brain on the ..............HOURS commute. What the hell else am I suppose to think about?

    I break down my labor NET of all those costs. I also know my hours.

    When I could work at a menial, degrading local job for near what I'm NETTING hourly for busting my ass it's time to make a change.

    it's not about nickles and dimes in the tool box as to what tools I may or may not feel like purchasing

    it's THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars in total expenses against a wage that doesn't keep up with inflation (both my work vehicles are in the shop for repairs, that HURTS)

    Think-------straw that breaks the camel's back.
  7. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    wait, you have to pay for your own truck? wth? I dont know a single union installer in N.Ca who doesnt have a company truck/van
  8. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    The company delivers MATERIALS. Union journeyman drive direct to the jobs. Time starts when we get on site. They even want to jerk us off on that deal. Some of the sites I work on take 20-40 minutes to get through security, park, deliver my tools to the work area and then about the same deal when I leave. They try to say my time starts when I strap the knee pads on.

    My union is REALLY weak. You just dont understand. It's not On the Waterfront here. We are nearly the 180 degree opposite of the NYC Carpenters union as far as power and influence.

    frankly, I'm wondering how much longer the union can remain solvent
  9. OrangeOrcon

    OrangeOrcon Resilient Journeyman

    Yup, id rather make 25 an hour cash and work 15 mins from home, its the same as making 44 an hour before taxes. One benefit is the insurance, for now..
  10. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

  11. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I think Amazon just lost a case about not getting paid to go through security as they enter and leave(empty pocketed) the site. That case may be applied to other industries. It's all in the wording that it's not part of the job.
  12. OrangeOrcon

    OrangeOrcon Resilient Journeyman

  13. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro


    Supreme Court rules Amazon doesn
  14. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    That's what I meant, Amazon doesn't have to pay workers to go through security. And if I read all your links I would be a Lawyer instead! Nice to go back to if needed though. You would be a good statute quoter Adams!
  15. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    I went to law school. :yesss: It wasn't for me. :eh:

    I am ... in a long term relationship :eek: with someone in law school.
  16. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    From here, where I live north is the mountain range of the Los Angeles National Forest-------Azusa Canyon.

    Yeah, IF we go into the shop we're paid our time from there. Normally-------95% of the time I'm going direct. But I still hump WAY more tools and equipment than I am contractually required to carry. That's getting out of hand and I'm about to draw the line.

    I know my contract and I know the state and local labor laws. Like I said. It's not a nickle and dime thing. Our union negotiated a REAL shitty deal on travel expenses. I'm not going to take LESS than that.

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