Trying to be an informed consumer- triexta

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by cheerpeople, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. cheerpeople

    cheerpeople Active Member

    I'm going back to Lee's tomorrow on my lunch break. What line or name should I be asking for to get a good triexta just like my sample of Mohawk intelligent stylesmartstrand ( from another store), that is a saxony or plush I guess- high twist- gonna last my family a while type product?

    it gets a little tricky for me when two stores are selling something similar under 2 different names.

    thx!
     
  2. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    If you're going to a Carpet One store, ask to look at "Relax it's Lees."
     
  3. ortiz34

    ortiz34 2nd generation Senior Member

    Only thing that can't relax is the wallet with that shiney beautiful Lees label:eek:
     
  4. Carpetkid

    Carpetkid A Floor Geek

    Ahh, now we're getting somewhere, but if your current carpet is being bleached out it is not polyester. Polyesters are closed cell (non-porous) filaments, while Nylons are not, which makes them porous (these pours are called diacites). Polyesters are dyed in a liquid state making them solution dyed, while nylons are dyed after tufting with acid based dyes (filling those diacites with color). Any house hold product with a higher ph (Acid level) that the dyes used on the nylon will "bleach" them out, but will not affect the color of polyesters. Oils, grease and grimes are the opposite. You may have been able get the oil of the surface of the polyester, but some of it was absorbed into the fiber and can never be cleaned out. In time that oil residue will attract dirt and grime and create a long lasting spot for years of enjoyment. But the nylon will not absorb the oil, your sample probably still has some residue on the nylon because you can't create the heat and suction of a professional cleaner to get it totally out.

    Smartstrand is Smartstrand. It’s produced by Dupont and then tufted into carpet Mohawk only and Lee’s is a subsidiary of Mohawk.

    I’m not sure how diacites is spelled though.


    P.S. Does anyone in your house use acne medication?
     
  5. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Carpetkid: Much of the info your have posted is at severe odds with my sources and training.

    Polyester are not impermeable as you indicate. They do have a significantly lower absorption rate than nylon (though higher than polypropylene) but non-porous is not an accurate statement.

    Both nylon and polyesters are engineered with dye sites which serve the purpose of allowing dyes a location for enhanced bonding to the fiber Go back to the original DuPont 501 which was a round smooth nylon filament They did dye well but had nowhere the fastness today's fibers do.

    Although this may have changed, I am only aware of solution dyeing (color chips melted into the liquid polymer before extrusion) of nylon (primarily for the contract market) and polypropylene (by necessity as they have not managed to create a practical dyeable olefin). I am not aware of any polyesters being dyed in this manner, although I would expect we will soon, much in the same manner as we now see filament polyesters that were all spun yarn systems in the not so distant past.

    Polyesters are still run on continuous lines and beck using disperse dyes. The acid based dyes used for nylon are not appropriate for polyesters.

    As you sate, polyesters, like polypropylene have an affinity for oils and an extremely tenacious bond can be formed making cleaning very difficult. Conversely, nylons have an affinity for acids, hence the exclusions on many stain protectant warranties for certain acid based spills, i.e. mustard.
     
  6. cheerpeople

    cheerpeople Active Member

    Intersting read you two.
    I was told by a carpet store salesperson my carpet sample from my current home was probably polyester. That's all I know. It was then called "renters carpet" ( years ago) but today the only thing I can find similar looking ( blotchy colors and pattern) is on line for $1.93 at carpetone. I haven't seen anything in a store sample like it. Can't recall the name- and who knows it may not be the same material these says.

    The oil thing is interesting. I can't see it and it doesn't show on the pic, but maybe in time with dirt etc it would reappear. Is that what you mean? Anyway I can't see it on either smartstrand or anso. They both passed IMHO.
     
  7. ortiz34

    ortiz34 2nd generation Senior Member

    Anso :yesss:
     
  8. cheerpeople

    cheerpeople Active Member

    someone needs more coffee- besides me---
     
  9. Carpetkid

    Carpetkid A Floor Geek

    "non-porous" may have been an over statement, but its pretty close. Other than that it looks like we're saying the same thing in different terms. Most Mills today are selling solution dyed polyesters because beck dyeing takes a tremendous amount of time and the extreme heat that it takes for the dyes to set just aren't efficient. I don't know of a Mill ever using a continuous line for polyesters, again due to the heat requirement. Even Beck dying is difficult to the extreme heat.

    I believe the 501's were pre 6,6 (not positive). With technology all nylon's and some polyesters have evolved and are easier to spin, blend, tuft, dye, are more color fast with better stain and soil protectors.

    Disperse dyes are actual color dyes that either etch the fiber or are excepted into the molecular structure by virtually melting the outer most part of the filaments in a non-solution dyed process. While Acid dyes are reactive, they require much lower heat can be Beck or Line Dyed with much higher efficiencies.

    Tide bit for the class...Acid based dyes are blended clear liquids that react to the positive/negative (like a magnet) charge of the yarn to create the desired colors. There has been a big surge in multi colored (sometimes called Barber Polls) nylons, these products are created by spinning bundles with different acceptant levels (higher or lower charged) and then are dyed using one color/formula. Also know as deep dye/light dye, these products usually contain 2-4 yarn types and why their colors are normally higher/lower tones of the same color.

    There's that Flooring Geek thing coming out again.
     
  10. cheerpeople

    cheerpeople Active Member

    thx for all your input.
     
  11. Carpetkid

    Carpetkid A Floor Geek

    Warranties and yarn are only a consideration at time of purchase. They're created as really big deal by the Salespeople because they're selling their products based on the wrong parameters and you only have these tangible concepts to compare with. But let's say the warranties were really important, how long do you plan on living there? 10, 15, 25 years? 90% of Americans move every 7.

    Cheerpeople, I’ll bet, that when you started shopping for flooring, you were looking to create a beautiful room ( space, house, etc. )that felt like home, based on your person style and never thought it would be this difficult and that you’d find yourself in a flooring chat room researching yarn and warranties?

    Funny tid bit...base grade carpet is replaced every 7-10 years, $50+ per yard Carpets are replaced every 5-6 years. Those entry level carpets are replaced 3 years after the homeowner consciously knows it should be replaced and 1 out of 4 of those consumers goes home without buying anything. The flooring Industry makes it to difficult to make a decision, makes the consumer shop more locations trying to find what they want, because we sell products based on price, yarn, twist, density, ply’s etc.
     
  12. anon

    anon New Member

    Cheerpeople - Some quick answers to your questions:

    1. The Carpetone Lees line is the same as smartstrand. It is their own private label, but is indeed the triexta fiber.
    2. Warranties will be different. Carpetone has their own warranties. Ask one of their salespeople for specifics. Regardless of whether you purchase at carpetone or elsewhere, the triexta warranties should be industry leading.
    3. Don't know much about the specific pricing your referenced on Carpetland.
    4. I am intimately familiar with both the Mohawk and Carpetone warranties. Both are reputable and honored.
     
  13. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Anon,

    Welcome. If you are a pro, please follow the directions in your welcome message (check your email) so you can have access to the private pro forums.

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
  14. Joel Darker

    Joel Darker Pro Member

    Just my 2 cents, Im an installer and have been cleaning carpet for the last 5 years.

    Like has been mentioned and it sounds like you already figured out, go with Nylon. If it was me i would go nylon first than make decisions around that as far as style etc. I cant keep track of the names but the polyester frieze or shag type carpets look horrible in a short amount of time. Like in front of a couch it often gets a dingy worn look and there is nothing that can be done about it. Where as nylon can look bad but a pro cleaning can make it like new again. There is other factors like solution dyed etc. but the ability of a good nylon to rejuvinate after a cleaning is amazing sometimes.

    But it any case the one common theme of customers with long lasting carpet is that they keep up with vacuuming since dirt ,sand etc. acts like sand paper. I have a feeling you keep up on maintenance better than most though.
     
  15. Carpetkid

    Carpetkid A Floor Geek

    That "dingy" grayish haze is from the oils in the enviroment absorbing into the polyester fiber.
     
  16. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    That goes back to another thread. Those oils, many times, are coming from bare feet. That makes it "consumer error".
     
  17. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    My experience inspecting has been the dingy shade is the result of damage, i.e. scratching of the fibers from particulate soil. This damage is permanent, can occur in all synthetic fiber and is the result of light refraction and reflection properties being altered.

    Regardless of fiber, the only things that will prevent this is regular vacuum cleaning with multiple passes on each area (you cannot vacuum carpet too often) and a regularly scheduled deep cleaning regimen. I personally am an advocate of hot water extraction method. Be aware part of any cleaning procedure should include a very thorough vacuum cleaning by the cleaner using a commercial rated vacuum, and in many cases a pile lifter before performing the actual cleaning. As has been very well put, is it easier to clean dirt or mud? Using a wet cleaning method before removing all dry soil first is ineffective at best and damaging to the carpet in some cases. I would not allow a carpet cleaner on my premises if the first piece of equipment off the truck was not a commercial vacuum cleaner!

    Additionally, a competent cleaner should be able to break the bond between oil and polyesters or polypropylene with proper chemical usage and procedures. It obviously will be more time consuming and entail a higher cost, but isn't this what a professional should be doing? I do have the opinion the a DIY cleaner will not have the expertise or availability to chemicals required for this. The rentals steam cleaner units or home extractions units will not cut it here.
     
  18. Carpetkid

    Carpetkid A Floor Geek

    My understanding is, that poly's absorb the oils and thay can not be removed.
     
  19. Joel Darker

    Joel Darker Pro Member

    Peter Kodner nailed it. I think the light refraction is the main issue but the oils are too. Plus that they dont stand back up like a nylon, "memory" i think like was mentioned in another thread.

    I use a truckmounted machine with very hot water capabilities that with a high flow wand and prevac, prescrub can easily clean up the nastiest berber.

    Those friezes though have been a thorn in many cleaners sides that just makes a guy look bad. I think the bad ones are the PET but not sure. Even most other polys clean up fine except for the memory problem. The only oils that are really a nighmare are from when customers walk from their blacktop driveway right onto the carpet everyday. ugh
     
  20. cheerpeople

    cheerpeople Active Member

    IMG_0152-1.jpg

    I thought you guys would ask to see but you never did. Here's the link of my test samples
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2011
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