Training course

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by mcurrin, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. I like the angle of mill support, like they can't donate/dump some defective product at your place to have at it. Maybe your cutting yourself short already by saying helper. It may be a career development center where all can participate, chip in and have all types of installation different times of the year.
  2. The Rev

    The Rev Pro Member

    I like your thinking on that!!
    We do have plans for Wood, Laminate & Vinyl training, I would love to see us work with inspectors & sales & Managers.. God knows a sales person promising the world or mis-figuring the job or not knowing what transitions to furnish, ruins your day on a pretty regular basis..

    It may be aq bit out there but if retailers are going to manage installation for their sales they need to get a better system & we have talked with some of the guys that have great measuring, estimating, management & dispatch & inventory systems about using our school to teach an installation management course for retailers...

    What would you think about that idea???

  3. I prefer the German approach = 7 years of training/apprenticeship and you know EVERYTHING about your field. You can become a Meister and teach other people...and make a schwack of money.

    Most floor layers in Germany don't do the full 7 years. After 3 years (school + experience) they have a specialty and produce amazing work. After that they can continue gathering skills in other areas. But most stick to their favourite product and never move beyond that.

    With board certification, exams and practicums the clients are well protected from poor labour/installation problems. There is always somewhere (an official office to make a complaint) to go to get your "fix" if something goes wrong.

    I wish N. America would get the apprenticeship programs up and running. It would separate the "floor installers" from the "hammer swingers".
  4. Flipping fantastic. Maybe the homeowner would feel their in the ballgame as well, a coordinated effort.
    Kinda like my little fish, taking pictures like I belong to them, I don't belong to them!

    So the 30 day deal, that's a month away from family, how do you deal with that, I was single when I went to training for 8 weeks in Minnesota, just got in my car and left.
    I think a few on this site are more than qualified to teach a few classes for a week or two,may help some get out of that crazy weather, feel some pride about their industry and surroundings
  5. Where you been Steph? I thought you were at some sandals resort without Internet.
    Got a lady may need some advice on a cork situation. Belgiumboys(vinyl question)
  6. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    Great Topic Rev !

    You have our attention ! and for me, the thoughts are going in one direction, from the Bottom Up !! :yesss: and you can't get much lower than a Helper.

    How many qualified installers, like myself, have a real fear to manage hired help ? I believe it's many, and it's probably hurting the trade by stifling growth. The reasons for fear are many, but lets leave that idea for another discussion.

    Do we think this fear keeps us, as a service provider, 5 steps behind other trades ? Just think ! one second, how sweet it sounds, to turn a one man band, into an orchestra of performers....Nice ! and in my area, it's happening ! for the heating and air-conditioning trade, why is that ?

    I'm a strong believer in "Bottom-up" decision making, so maybe, just maybe, new recruits, in the form of helpers, can and will motivate change, ( in this amazing trade of flooring ) from the Top-Down.

    Best of luck Rev, and Lets keep movin and groovin on TFP.... :yesss: :D

    "Bottom-up" decision-making in Japan

  7. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I wouldn't get overly anxious about mill support. They do a lot of talking but that is about far as it goes. I have tried for over a year to get a 3x12 of a couple different carpet backings for CFI backing chains. No such luck! Mohawk stepped up to the plate for a lot of CFI trainings with carpet that was seconds or damaged beyond use. The rest not so much.


  8. @Mike - I've been around. I read my "floor pro" threads every day...but I don't always answer. I use this place as an excellent source of I can help my clients understand what they are "looking at" when it comes to flooring...some many people need little time...sigh.

    As for your lady looking for cork advice, I'm always ready to help. If you need to, send her email or phone contact info. I'll make sure she understands what is needed/wanted/required in a cork floor.

    And I've already had a "lead" from this website! I'm stoked. Someone looking for acoustic information on cork and cork underlay! They were sent my way by the powers that be! Thank you TFP!

    Keep it coming!

  9. Elmers probably got some CIA buddies that are "Motivational Speakers" to help turn em upside down for a little help to fall out, surely Jimmie, I mean Warren Buffett could pitch a few bucks. Flooring tool manufacturers as well though their not really the same as they use to be, made in USA.
  10. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    The sooner a little education in some hard surface products comes along (for FAST) the better. In this area we have no proprietary trade unions so every carpet installer also has to know how to install a little sheet goods and VCT and engineered woods. Most of the full-blown wood is still done by a few local professionals. The variety is a daily activity. Some also partake in ceramic tile simply because the installation involves more than one product and when a small ceramic tile installation is included in a healthy carpet installation the Rug-Rats do it most times.

    This isn't to say there aren't a lot of us [ceramic tile only] dudes around here. I have learned to specialize in ceramic tile custom showers and large format floor tile installations. This is because most knowledgeable Rug-Rats recognize ceramic showers are a specialty item and large format tiles are a bitch. It is surprising how many carpet installers I have mentored over the years in ceramic tile installations, and still do. But, some of this stuff isn't necessarily for everybody. You have to be a little nuts to want to do nothing but ceramic tile and it helps to also be a little knowledgeable in the field.

    I have given a few seminars for a local tile manufacturer and a large chain of retail outlets. It is surprising (and disappointing) how little some of these people really know about the science of ceramic and stone tile installations. My last seminar had about thirty participants in attendance. Mostly installers, some sales people, and a few department managers. Out of the thirty (or so) that were there only about twenty percent had heard of the TCA (TCNA) and only two claimed to possess the TCNA Handbook. That is "two participants" not 2 percent in attendance. I suppose that's a plus.

    Attendance to these seminars was mandatory by the retailer so the turnout was satisfying but the audience was captive. What was even more satisfying was when a scheduled one hour talk turned into about a three hour question and answer period all about the ins and outs of successful ceramic tile installations. This told me that these people were starved for proper information and wanted to learn as much as they possibly could about ceramic tile installations. Some of them had experienced the joys of do-overs and of course no-one wants that to happen too often.

    Point being...we all agree the need for quality learning is there (God knows) but I can vouch for the fact that there are plenty of men and women out there that want to learn and acquire as much formal knowledge as they possibly can. Some of us view this profession as just that...A PROFESSION. I am a professional tile installer and damned proud of it.

    FAST, if managed properly could quickly turn into a cash-cow that could then turn into an epidemic-of-learning and spread nationally in a short time. Okay this has gotten longer than I anticipated so I'll shut up for a while.

    I should however mention that I would bet, there are plenty of community colleges around this country that would welcome an opportunity to house a Floor Covering Installation Training Program. Just something to think about. ;)
  11. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Now I said carpet manufacturers, not tool people. The tool people go out of their way to give out tools at the CFI convention, Roland's Christmas party, what have you. I feel the carpet manufacturers could give a fat rat's ass for the installer, excluding Mohawk.
    Now these are my opinion so its not of anyone else's.


  12. Hey Bud...never, NEVER "shut up" as you put it. Tile setting is an art + science and anyone involved in producing a great product should be proud. Trades built this continent and are considered integral to the N. American economy. In Canada we put a higher "value" on educated tradesmen from EuropeE/Europe then we do Doctors from Britain! It is easier to enter Canada as a German Stone/brick layer than it is as an Australian nurse or dentist!

    Canadian schools are bringing in trades training to entice students to finish high-school with some form of skill! Trades are valuable and can be an excellent way of making a living! Excellent work comes with education - both formal and from a skilled mentor.

    I've had ex-pat Brits laugh on at me when I tell them how much install for a cork glue down floor costs! They ask, "Why? It's cork for C#rists sake! Its so easy to cut! It can't be that hard!". I have to educate those who believe that "grunt work" should be paid by the penny and not by the dollar. I've yet to hear back from that lady...she's sure a glue down cork shouldn't cost more than $1/sf to lay! She has 700sf to install. She refuses to pay the $2800 for install, let alone the product. And $4/sf labour with g/d cork is a JOKE! No one installs for less than $6/sf...and yes that is in "large format porcelain tile" range!
  13. The Rev

    The Rev Pro Member

    I suppose it's a kinder & gentler world, than in the past, but let me put this gently among friends... Sometimes it's time to grow up & fly out of that nest.. People that go to college leave for 3 months at a time & if you go to Boot camp its about the same..

    If they can't stand to be away from home & hearth, & the little Mary sunshine of their life, then they aren't ready to commit to a career program

    Much like you. My parents loaded all my stuff in the old 4 door Mercury Park Lane & drove 400 miles to seminary at Greenville SC. They helped me find my room, helped me carry my stuff to my room & said good bye!
    I didn't even get DINNER! & the next time I saw them it was Christmas break!

    My kids spent 20 years telling me how fast, they would be out of the house when they "got big" Now one is 21 & the other 25 & I have yet to spend a month without one or both bouncing back home...LOL

    Some will view it with trepidation & others with a sense of adventure & others will let it stop them from a great adventure in learning... We will teach the ones that show up!
  14. The Rev

    The Rev Pro Member

    Hey Bud it's clear to me that those guys knew a pro when they found one! Nohack gets asked questions & even most good guys don't get many.. If you can hold court & keep em coming for 3 hours that was MAXIMUM props for you!

    I agree or we wouldn't be this deep into this effort, there is a small but conscientious group out there that wants to learn & get off to a good start. That's all we need! 30 people out of the whole of north America each month is not a drop nor a drab, but it is what we will start as & if you are right then there will be one on each corner of the US.

    You would think that the Community colleges would be interested but most of them have an incentive to drag classes out over many semesters & the sad thing is they only want to teach classes that are licensed or have some industry based certification, we lack both!

    If you think about what gets taught with your TAX dollars its. Plumbing, Licensed! Electrical, Licensed! Cosmetology & Barbering, Licensed! Even the auto trades are ASE Certified & accounting is a certificate! The states we have talked to said "if you were licensed we would want you but until you get licensed, we cant help you"... Chicken & egg thing!

    The US Department of Labor has an apprenticeship credential program & they have been really interested in what we are doing and are trying to modify an existing program for us... More on that as it develops!
    Thanks for your follow up & encouragement, we keep moving forward..

  15. I guess I'm just curious about the varying situations that will bring them all there, sounds exciting to do something new.
  16. The Rev

    The Rev Pro Member

    WOW I really appreciate & agree with your comments, nice to get some encouragement!!!

    I have this belief that I never talk about when IM pitching this program.. I believe the recruits will actually infect the master installers with some new ideas, tools & attitude and that's a great way to infuse some new life into an old horse!!
  17. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Locally our community colleges offer several short courses. Licensing and certificates are probably part of what is acceptable to them in most cases. Locally a short course in CNA (Certified Nurses Aide) is offered and another in Med Aide that lasts only weeks. They also offer courses like Small Appliance Repair, Small Engine Repair (lawnmowers, weed whackers) that sort of thing. They have space available and like to keep their name out front to attract the juicier students that are after Associates Degrees and such. There is also plenty of short term adult education courses, hell, even the local STOP Classes are held on campus regularly. (That's where I took mine!)

    I'm surprised some greedy politician hasn't recognized that flooring installers do in fact work with chemicals and should be required to have training and a license to handle the chemicals to create yet another taxable profession and a new income stream. Sh-h-h-h-h!!!

    I can see Beauticians and Electricians and Auto Mechanics having a "License To Steal" but have never heard of anyone being injured or killed as a result of an over-flowing toilet.

    I just see where holding classes on a college campus could lend credibility to the trade in the eyes of the public and help to eradicate the stigma associated with the business. We aren't all Hacks and Used Car Salesmen. Nothing against Used Car Salesmen but we all know how they are stereotyped.

    Just thinking out loud!!!:hmmm:
  18. The Rev

    The Rev Pro Member

    The whole world is better off if people "are just thinking" about how to make it a better place, Thanks for the thoughts..
    BTW what the heck is a STOP class...
    The rev
  19. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Must be a local reference, I thought it was nationwide. I can't remember what it stands for but it is the local acronym used for a class one can participate in in this state when one is issued a citation for a traffic violation and doesn't want the information to go to his insurance company resulting in an excuse to raise ones insurance premiums. In my case I think I got a speeding ticket, or something real serious like that.

    I own five vehicles so anything I can do to keep my insurance rates down is helpful. If my rates were to increase due to traffic tickets the rates would increase on all five policies. The Bastards!!!:) Sorry Reverend!

    Ah-h-h-h-h, but I digress.:ot:
  20. The Rev

    The Rev Pro Member

    WE just call it traffic school & you can rent a video & take an online test, to help reduce the damage .. I have been so many times I just bought the tape!!! & they know me by first name when I call in!!

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