Tiny trowel notches on big jobs

Discussion in 'Commercial Flooring Sales & Installation' started by Barry Carlton, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    Most of you know that I stick to the smaller jobs nowadays. I'm starting a rather big one (for me) on Monday, 250+- yds. of Armstrong Commercial Something. It requires S-599.

    the notching recommended is 1/32X1/16X5/64. This seems crazy thin. So my question to you commercial guys is...how often do you change the blades, do cheat and start bigger? (I used to with VCT), do you use the right trowel blades and change them every 2 gallons like Armstrong used to recommend? or do you just use a roller or piece of cpt glued to a trowel?
     
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I use to buy em by the 12 pack from Tools4Flooring, the versablades you get two sides, I can’t recall what the average was with the small notch, I’d say @ 500 ft?, I’d flip the trowel occasionally to see the difference between the new and worn. Keeping a bucket of water with extra dawn soap and a brush keeps the teeth clean.
     

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  3. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Corlon or Medintech?

    What's the lighting like?

    They want you to minimize the glue so the notches don't show through. Corlon has that absorbsion with the felt (or whatever) backing so you can get into it somewhat wet----- notches are going to be squished out as soon as you pass the roller. NO PROBLEM

    With Medintech the bigger notch WILL telegraph. I do cheat a little with a bigger notch toward the backside of a room where there's no low angle lighting. But I'm measuring the spread rate as I go. You need to constantly check that because different substrates wear the notch down at different rates. Of course you're checking visually but as you spread out a pail always double check the square footage. Don't ever use less than called for. It's more a matter of dropping the sheets in before there's no transfer and thus no SQUISHING down of the trowel not to eliminate the telegraphing.

    Squishing is a highly technical term so be careful where you might use it.
     
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  4. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    I was really asking you this. I would have PM'd you but you don't accept PMs
     
  5. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I'm with incognito mate, it really is a matter of the spread rate. I burn up a lot of 1/32 x 1/16 x 1/32 trowels and as soon as I notice I'm saving a lot of money on glue, I get a new one. With those particular trowels I get two sides of a versa blade per bucket. So round about 400-450 sqft

    Grrr to medintech.... that stuff makes life harder than in needs to be.
     
  6. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    If ya want i'll come inspect the job!! Be happy to tell you ya did it wrong!
    If you worry about adhesive telegraphing you could backroll and have the worry go away.
     
  7. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    Ya know.....there might just be a meet up on the horizon....
     
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  8. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    What I do with some of these domestic vinyls when I think there could be an issue with the glue mirroring is spread the glue normally with a trowel then run over the glue with a paint roller on a long handle with a little of fluff on the paint roller
    Makes the glue very even with no trowel marks . This works with acrylic type glues
     
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  9. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I just started using Mapei eco 360 for every residential glue down. Felt and homogenous. I paint roll and give it a brief tack off, I am fully aware it is never the recommended application or product but what I have come to learn is I have been doing it for about 8 years and I haven't seen it or heard of it going bad yet... that's good enough for me :)
     
  10. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I figure maybe 3 trowels on 2250 ft, two sides per trowel. We grinded everything and sometimes it left a good scratch pattern. So I would like to know what is expected, the coverage on the backing, the theory, ridges are up, sheet lays in, what is ideal? The adhesive is wet, coats the backing, as ridges flatten out from rolling, the liquid vehicle formula pulls into the substrate as it sets leaving the solids in contact with both immediate surfaces?
     
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  11. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    Ahem.. let me explain in laymen's terms!

    Glue sticky, take over for gravity when not enough. BOOM
     
  12. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Yeah, I need Science!
     
  13. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    sorry buddy, I couldnt help myself.
     
  14. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    Armstrong used to say to change your trowel every 1/2 bucket. Those were the days of the 3 1/2 gallon buckets.
    That is what I plan on doing. I am still undecided on whether or not to use a roller as well. Kinda leaning that way.
     
  15. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I hope you get what I mean Barry
    Spread the glue with a trowel as normal THEN run over the glue with a paint roller
    That way you can control the spread rate with your trowel Then the paint roller makes the glue very smooth and even
    I do not bother trying to clean and use the paint roller more than one day. New roller each day
    You want me to come up and show you? :)
     
  16. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    If you cover the roller after spreading with some visqueen or Saran Wrap it prevents from drying, paint brushes as well.

    You would think they could make the trowels out of better steel to reduce the wear. The thin spring steel is too weak.

    The little clip on trowels under bucket lids was/is a good idea.
     
  17. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Yeah, I’m going to return fire after a long work day today maybe if I’m not too tired. It’ll be on your RH thread.
     
  18. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    Yeah I understood Jon. I've been doing that for a long time.
    And I have been using the same roller for about 6-8 weeks by keeping it wrapped in the plastic that the material comes in. A plastic grocery bag works in a pinch as well.
     
  19. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    I still have a good handful of the trowel blades that used to come on the Marmo glue pails. Use them almost exclusively when a regular vinyl notch is needed.
     
  20. otis

    otis Fuzzy side up

    1/32X1/16x5/64 (Versablade WHA) is the notch you must to use for the S-599. And like the others have said, watch your spread rate! I've been putting in miles of Medintech lately. Some of it is over wood underlayment, and some over concrete. Obviously the trowel notch will last much longer on the wood. Also, timing is everything with the Medintech. It needs open time to avoid bubbles, but like Incognito mentioned, makes sure you still get transfer. Roll in both directions (width first) then re-roll. You shouldn't have any issues with telegraphing.
     
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