tile work without removing old linoleum?

Discussion in 'Ceramic and Stone Q&A' started by willg54, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. willg54

    willg54 New Member

    Hello from fire stricken Colorado. I am a diyer, I do tons of projects on my old house. Currently, I will lay ceramic tile. But, there are still some areas of the kitchen floor that have linoleum. Just patches here and there. I will put thinset, then backer board, then more thinset, then my tiles. I chiseled off a piece of the linoleum, and it is only about 1/16 th of an inch thick. Can I do my tile work without having to remove all the old patches of linoleum? Will the thinset and backer board level that all out enough so I won't have any problems with the new tile, like cracking. Any info will help, especially if you tell me I don't have to remove the old flooring. Hammer and chisel will take forever, and I am old, with bad knees and back. Hahaha. Sucks getting old. Thanks in advance!! :)
  2. What size tile? The wood subfloor has to be rigid and not move downward, that is how Tile cracks.
  3. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    That's not going to be linoleum. It's vinyl=PLASTIC.

    You wont get a very good bond with the thinset. In an ideal world you take it all out and do a "mud job". I know a lot of people use that cement board over ply and existing floors but it's not the best solution.

    Demo really isn't that hard. Cut it in strips. The top layer will peel off leaving a felt backing. Use a 4" razor scraper to get all that off.
  4. Procyrus

    Procyrus Pro Member

    I am guessing the subfloor is concrete, or else you could just screw the backerboard in the floor.
    Best solution is to remove the vinyl, get down to the concrete. If you cant do that, get a discer/hand sander and rough the top of the vinyl. Skimcoat the entire floor with Uzin 888. Then you can install on top.
  5. willg54

    willg54 New Member

    12in by 12in tile...thanks for the info

    Incognito, thanks. Guess I'll probably tear it all up. Was hoping I didn't need to. I will try cutting into strips. Thanks again!

    PS. What exactly is a "mud job"? Sorry, I'm a complete newbie! Hahaha!
  6. If I'm reading Incog's post right...(sometimes terminology varies regionally)

    "Mud" is a specific mixture of Portland Cement and Sand. Many old timers will make this mixture by hand, blending the two components on the jobsite. This material is mixed with a very small amount of water to create a mixture much like wet sand on a beach. This mix is placed and packed and left to harden to create a level surface to install tile over.

    Some manufacturers also offer a bagged "Mud" product:

    209 Floor Mud - LATICRETE

    Here in Indiana about the only time we see a "Mud Bed" or "Dry Pack" used is when we're dealing with a shower installation and there's a need to create a slope in the floor for water to drain.
  7. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

  8. Glad to know I wasn't too far out there Incog. ;)
  9. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    • Like Like x 1
  10. We still have one or two who still mix their own mud. Mostly commercial work. It's harder to find clean dry sand here. You have to watch the bags of sand from the home centers because they trap moisture in them and it messes everything up when you're trying to mix it with the Portland. All of a sudden you're mixing chunks rather than powder.

    I've always been amazed at how hard that stuff gets when it sets up for no more water that's used. It makes you really appreciate how much extra water is in regular concrete when it's poured for placement than is needed to hydrate the concrete.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Stone Masons use mud beds to set slab stone, ungauged stone the mud bed acts as to offset the different thicknesses of the stone for the surface to be dam near perfectly flat and level. They used shims to slide over the top of granite or marble, if it hit the piece next to it, it was too high(lippage) and it would be adjusted. Tapping down that side raises the opposite, all to be factored into the equation.

    Mud beds didn’t transfer cracks in tile like Thinset does due to movement in substrate.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
  12. willg54

    willg54 New Member

    Thanks to all for the info on "mudding" and other stuff. Guess I'll just have to figure out exactly what to do, then put my nose to the grindstone, so to speak. Or hey, I could just hire someone who really knew what he was doing! Hahaha. Unfortunately, I'm not financially able, so I'll just do the best I can, and hope it all works. Thanks again for all the info!!! :)
    • Like Like x 2
  13. I have seen mastic work really well over plywood.(doing removals) Tried to get more info from you or maybe properly fastened 1/4” underlayment (moisture resistant)as the sacrificial layer when removed down the road. Not sure why I looked that “nose to the grindstone” term a few weeks ago, conflicting answers, my take is “pay attention to what you’re doing (focus)
  14. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

  15. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I used that on my daughters basement floor about 5-6 years ago. Worked like a charm. Nothing loose or cracked yet and there were cracks in the concrete-hairline.


  16. epoxyman

    epoxyman Pro Member

    Used something like that in my old house got it from Dal tile it was called dal seal installed about 1,800 sf never had a crack or anything in the 16 years I lived there
  17. willg54

    willg54 New Member

    Thanks once again to everyone for all the help and suggestions. I'm on a budget, so I will probably go the least expensive route. I plan on selling the house in probably 2 years, so I don't want to sink too much money into it. I'm hoping the less expensive fix will at least hold up till I sell it. Also, the original flooring is not peeling up like vinyl. It has been mopped so many times since 1953, that it just crumbles, and so I am using a hammer and chisel to get it up. Ugh! That's why I was hoping to simply put down mud, then backer board, then mud and then tile, leaving the old bits and pieces of flooring in place. Anywho, I'll do my best and hope I don't "F" it up! :)
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. There was also the term “fat mud” in the marble mason field. This was made by adding high strength masonry mix to the Portland and sand. Lyme is what makes vertical cement stick to walls. This was used to bond and lock in slab panels on walls which would encapsulate stainless fasteners and hard copper wire. I liked to add extra HS masonry cement to be stronger, that philosophy was wrong as it dried and cracked, (chemistry wrong) can’t remember the ratio, maybe 2 parts masonry 1 part Portland 4 parts sand.
  19. It sure if “neat cement” was mentioned, it’s just water and Portland cement which looks like a paste. Absorption of slab and tile/stone is considered if it needs dampening, then the paste is coated/brushed onto slab/tile for bonding purposes, the mud is then the filler in between.

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