This time its POLITICAL

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by Nate Hall, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. Floored by Newman

    Floored by Newman Floored by Newman

    One time fee I can understand. On hand training/certification costs money. Renewal should be a must just not charged. Should be a test some how via internet to renewal. I would become certified if it was not such a hard hit let alone never ending.
  2. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    "The bennies" could one-day be in the numbers. There is strength in numbers.

    Twenty years ago when I came to this town I got hooked up with a well known flooring store and at the time was glad to be associated with them, I thought. After contracting with them for several months it was announced that a family member that was CFI Certified was going out on his own and all installers would work under this guy. He leased some shop space and we all moved out of the store and congregated at his place to drink coffee and gab and get our assignments so to speak.

    One of the first things this guy did was announce to everyone that he would drop his CFI membership because they did nothing for him. He went on to say that "he" and his fellow associates "Wrote the Book on Carpet Installations", and then he began to cherry pick the jobs and dole them to whoever he wanted to have the work. The guy was a frigging ass-hole.

    Well as you can imagine he and I didn't get along very well and it wasn't long before I refused to work under the ass-hole I returned to the store. Not too long after that others followed me back to the store.

    CFI could have a strong membership if they had a little more organization, a little better organization, and fewer ass-holes like this guy was. Is ole Jimmy still running that show?

    CFI could be the heartbeat in organizing a strong union if they just would. A few of us here have been down this path before on another website forum years ago, and to no avail. You know who you are. Guys get on these boards and talk a big stick but when it comes tournament time they just lose their balls.

    I understand not too long ago CFI was also going to certify tile installers, what ever happened to that.

    A few years ago after Dave Gobis left CTEF and the new guy went to work as Executive Director they did begin holding certifications but I think that has fizzled by now.

    There is strength in numbers, talk it up and see where it goes.

    As for CFI...the consumer has never heard of them, they (the consumers) don't know they are there, CFI has never promoted CFI as far as I remember except to collect fees and dues and pass out window decals.

    Same ole problem: How do you make the consumer aware of the existence of such an organization. You have to train the public. How the flyin' hell are you going to do that?
  3. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With toes I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    Armstrong has an on-line renewal (I just renewed mine) but it still can't baby-sit all installers who are certified.
    As an NFIC regional certifier I can tell you we have a pretty rigorous training. When a guy puts a thousand dollars on the line...that guy is going to be very serious about getting all he can out of the three day certification. NFIC is the only organization I know of with a zero failure rate. CFI and Karastan certifications have no required follow up renewal testing of any kind. Though CFI does ask that people participate in on going education. If one chooses not to do so it hurts that individuals referrals. Kind of a self policing file system, guys with fatter files get more attention while guys with thin files get passed over.
    All in all the CFI life-time certification is the best way to get the most for your certification dollars.
    Speaking of dollars you know you can get $500.00 annually from WFCA. pay them $250.00 and they pay half of any educational tuition including certifications, CFI convention, and Surfaces trade show.
  4. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Yeah, you're right Bud it was uncalled for and I have no excuse. I apologize.
  5. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Not a problem.;)
  6. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    TalkFloor has done an interview with Claudia Lezell, from IICRC, on the S-600 Carpet Installation Standard. The audio recording is here.
  7. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    ...and Part II ?
  8. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Well, if you're not going to listen to part-1... :hu:
  9. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Already did!
    I yearn for more knowledge and education every waking moment of my life.
    Bring it!:yesss:
  10. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Here I sit strumming my fingers on my desk waiting, waiting, waiting!
  11. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    I figgered you hadn't listened to the interview - at least not long enough to hear Dave Foster tell you this is part-1 of a 2-part interview and the second part would be available tomorrow. I'm guessing it's a case of selective hearing. ;)
  12. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    I did hear that!
    I assumed that Part I had been recorded some time ago and Part II (tomorrow) was already in the can also.

    Don't know how I'm going to sleep tonight, the anticipation is just too stressful. Going to have to take a pill.
  13. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    H-m-m-m-m! Must be an evening interview.:facepalm:
  14. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With toes I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    Careful Bud Jim has been rumored to have guys banished for life. I heard there was a guy who was always a smart alec. One day he used his last straw to break Jims back...he was never seen or heard from again.:eek:
    That mans name? Jimmy Hoffa
    And now you know the rest of the story.
  15. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

  16. Floored by Newman

    Floored by Newman Floored by Newman

    Thanks for the share Jim. Sounds to me as if they have not got this mastered yet, not enough players and some big players backing out. Run and beg for standards she says. I also cannot forget the fact that court of law was mentioned quite often throughout conversations. Also have recognized thru my years failed floors from architects and designers and so forth are because of the choices that are made during process. So who needs to be trained/ certified/ educated
  17. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Look for it to be wraped up by end of this year. Also look for the WFCA to own it.
    Just me giving my view.
  18. mcbrides

    mcbrides Canadian Installers Senior Member

    Ontario, not the rest of Canada...
  19. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    This is really confusing to me.
    I don't see where those two (IICRC) interviews are all that enlightening.
    I wonder if the time it has taken to get this far (five years) (or is it forty years) has anything to do with the apparent lack of credibility the IICRC seems to possess? It seems as if they (IICRC) want to be the big kid on the block when in fact they don't seem to have a real backbone in the industry.

    IICRC is little-known to the installation community. What is known is the IICRC was a body of janitors and custodians for years and now suddenly they want to tell the installation industry how it is to be done? I think there is some lingering resentment hidden away on the part of the installers and maybe some inspectors.

    Seems the carpet people are having some issues with it also. And there is talk of "hard-surface" coming under the same organizations authority. I'm not convinced "authority" is the correct word to use.

    My thinking is...

    (Maybe this should be moved to a new thread!)

    My thinking is that inspectors and installers whether they are carpet or hard surface or whatever simply are not on the same page on a regular basis and there-in lies a very fundamental flaw in the thinking of the IICRC. I think most inspectors are talented and level-headed guys and gals but the installers not so much. This is simply because installers take the brunt of the inspections that point accusing fingers at them most of the time. Not that they aren't at fault to begin with. I don't see why the flooring industry would want all of those entities under the same roof and expect things to run smoothly.

    And mention of the consumer/customer.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  20. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With toes I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    The cri 104-5 didn't make things run smoothly and I doubt the S600 will either. If the WFCA can corral all the different installation entities together to abide by the S600 that will be good. But it is a small baby step towards fixing the many ills of the industry as a whole.

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