This time its POLITICAL

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by Nate Hall, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    I take home about 10 per hour and the wife thinks I should work at McDonalds:eek: they get $10 per hour. That means the take home pay is $6 per hour at McDs. Plus I will have a valuable business to sell at retirement...at McDs not so much.
    So back to the topic. If certification is not the answer and a set of standards won't work...then what do we do? Wait until everyone evloves enough to know right from wrong and only does right? Seriously how does it get better?
     
  2. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    The fastest way to get word out there would be through the home magazines like Lady's Home Journal. In the early days I believe CFI checked into it and a add in those magazines was astronomical. TV adds would also work if you could afford the air time. A few like Roland and the CFI chapter in Oklahoma City did home shows. Today the internet would be the fastest way, and I have no idea what pricing is there. Until then It is the same o same o.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  3. Majwoody

    Majwoody Pro Member

    What if manufactures required retailers to use qualified installers in order to gain price advantage or warranty? Until all parties involved realize just how much value installation can add or subtract from a product nothing will change. I have gotten to the point where I will ask my perspective customer,"do you want it done right or do you just want it done?"

    I finally split my finances between work and personal in April. I havent drawn a paycheck since. Yet somehow I feel I'm a successful installer.
     
  4. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    Agreed! Making warranties contingent on installation qualifications like certification and/or skill level testing is one good way to increase the value of qualified installation professionals. Of course when one is certified one tends to deliver value and has value for ones self. Without self-value nobody will value you either. Thats how certification gets you more money. Not because of the certification but because of the value you can bring to the job via the certification.
     
  5. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    So...I was correct. INSTALL is not a project/program with the everyday homeowner/consumer in mind. INSTALL is only for the big-bucks-customer that can afford them and their expertise. So INSTALL is a organization built around cronyism?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2014
  6. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    Bud? Is Karastan certification cronyism because most folks can't afford Karastan carpet?
     
  7. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    ***********************
    Yes, it's right in the bylaws of every union contract that the essential purpose of collective bargaining organization and all their training effort is to promote fat, corrupt, sleazy, incompetent cronies into positions of political power. This way we can all bow down to them and pay them money out of our paycheck that they can spend on hookers, cocaine, booze, mansions and a yacht.

    That's what we're all about.......every single one of us and the horses we rode in on.
     
  8. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I never heard of Install till you guys brought them up , and the article(only listened to part one)
    Good for them in taking on that part of the industry, I'm gonna join one of them eventually.
    I gotta get back to cutting these bastards down.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2014
  9. jason c

    jason c Pro Member

    If the stores insisted on $60 an hour for labor in my area, all flooring would be DIY installed. The homeowners would not be able to afford it. I normally make more than that but my customers are high end. The people who go to HD, Lowes or the mom and pop store would be priced out.
     
  10. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I have to disagree.

    I know new construction guys who routinely do 200-250 yds a day. If the shop was charging $6 a yard that would be $1200-1500 a day. Two installers @$60=$120 hr time 8 hrs = 960, so the shop is making $250-700 a day for materials and truck. Usually the crew is 1 union installer has an apprentice or 2nd yr app. who is getting paid 30 per hour so the shop is making a couple hundred off the crew even after supplies. They also make a margin on the carpet and cushion.
    Lots of ways to massage the numbers.

    Yes HD and Lowe's charge MORE than $6 to the customer and always add extras.
     
  11. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    If you want to get to the public you need to go to them. You need to start where you are. Like I said, If it is ti be , It is up to me.
    The photo's are from this years open house. This is the home that the Frederick co. Vo-Tech builds with t he help of contractors and companies giving of there time. Even product. Our local Delmarva chapter has been the one's doing the training and work now for year's. We get to work with the students and tell them about our trade. We had some young ladies working on the hardwood this year.
    At the open house all the local news covers it. The mayor and all the local big wheels come out. Lot's of area parents and friends come also.
     

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  12. jason c

    jason c Pro Member

    You obviously have never worked in rural America. There is no new construction. The economy has never recovered.
     
  13. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Well...that was a little uncalled for! I didn't say any of that now did I? Hell I'm an ex-Teamster myself and also hold a withdrawal card from the Communication Workers of America so let's not get too defensive. I was a Teamster when Jimmy Hoffa was stealing my retirement money, and wasn't the first one to do it. I was a Teamster who while working on a oil refinery job was diverted (driving a company truck) to haul stolen process piping parts to the construction site of a brand new million dollar home being built for the Union President of my local. I have a lot of stories about my days as a Teamster including the swimming pool us drivers helped to install for a union vice president, at no-charge.

    I come from Illinois. I know corruption, I know about skimming and diversion, I know about unions so don't give me any bullshit.

    If I had it my way...all flooring installers in the country would be organized and belong to one big fat whoop-ass union. That would guarantee a decent wage for all of us and would keep the unscrupulous store owners in line and out of our pockets and would put an end to Home Depots so-called $39.00 full house carpet installations. Then-n-n-n-n, all Hacks would be cab drivers in New York City like they used to be.

    You have to admit what the unions have done to the automobile industry is a sad situation. The unions did that - no one else.
     
  14. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    Flooring is a big business. Big enough to have our own union. Not a hanf out from the carpenters. I had hoped that CFI would be that group and they have done a lot for us but ee need more. The s600 could help us get more. Only if it is used to unite the installation professionals. Then and only then will we get whats due to us.
     
  15. Floored by Newman

    Floored by Newman Floored by Newman

    Start your union, your own certification of... others have done it why cant you Nate. I will take part just don't take my hard earned money and its golden. How do you do this though? Time to come up with something guys. I really would like to see a change myself but how... We do have the knowledge here and these major players are feeding on it and we hand it out no problem.
     
  16. jason c

    jason c Pro Member

    I really know nothing about CFI, except a lot of ex members don't like it. Can anyone tell me why?
     
  17. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    I am a regional certifier for CFI and NFIC. I have certified over 50 installers so far this year. At that rate I will have to certify installers for 50 or 60 years before I even get close to the 40000 installers cetified to daye by CFI alone. If no one pays for the cert. what do I eat? Where do I live? I love this trade but I don't want to be Natey carpet-seed. Besides that how serious is a free certification going to be taken. By both the mills and consumers. Not to mention the installer who has no skin in the game.
     
  18. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I understand where Nate is coming from as well as Newman. I think that there should be a middle ground somewhere. From an installers side, where is the value in certification? I know they talk about how it is a step up on your competition, you can market yourself as a CFI trained installer (may or may not get any more bucks).

    They list 14 benefits in their website. Discounts are mentioned, guys I talk to laugh about that, everything else comes with additional costs, (can you call that a benefit)? A 20% discount at Red Roof Inns, REALLY?, who stays at the red roach inn?:ohno::ohno:

    So, $500 for certification and $100 a year......... where are the bennies?
     
  19. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    UPDATE! The $100 /year dues hsve been abolished! Once you gey CFI certified it's for life!
    This is reyro active too, in that, any one who has ever been certified is now certified whether you paid dues or not. To get contact info. published on the CFI website costs extra...about $100 / year.
     
  20. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Still worth it, one call a year from customer pays for it.
     
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