Still doing Koster/Ardex FF/Mondo

Discussion in 'Spotlight on Flooring Professionalism' started by Incognito, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Just a little under 3K square feet or 266 square meters of 3MM x 1M Mondo tiles-----three colors.

    Photos tell the story

    We're going to start gluing down the tiles Monday. There's a BIG problem with the exterior walls so it's going to be a longer than normal process because we have to hold back off those walls to allow the school district carpenters to repair. IMG_4114.JPG IMG_4116.JPG IMG_4124.JPG IMG_4125.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  2. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    4M x 5M school mascot logo centered in the cafeteria with a pattern and border. IMG_4127.JPG IMG_4130.JPG IMG_4130.JPG IMG_4135.JPG IMG_4133.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
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  3. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    I like the colors. Material laid in real nice. Two heavy coats of Feather Finish over the Koster was adequate. There's "hammered" finish which does not telegraph minor flaws or rolls in the slab like VCT, smooth vinyl, high gloss LVT, etc. We still spend two full days with two journeyman and used over 50 bags of patch. Sand and prime the Koster. Sand the first heavy coat of patch and Kleensweep. The 2nd coat goes on like smooth Jiffy peanut butter and leaves a thing of beauty for the urethane adhesive.

    Glueing it down is the hardest part BY FAR.

    It's just a big pain in the ass. IMG_4128.JPG IMG_4131.JPG IMG_4132.JPG
     
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  4. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    The slab was 67 degrees so the urethane adhesive was taking a very long time to set/tack up. Normally that just sucks but with the waterjet logo it was freaking perfect. We had plenty of time to dork around with the zillion little pieces so the seams were all good and tight like my foreign exchange student girlfriend from highschool; Gretta Gudentight. Just got 4 rows down and it was too late in the day for a union guy to mix another unit considering the unusually long tack time. I don't like to mix epoxy/urethane afternoon. PERIOD. I think it's better to take short day and go home if there's nothing else to be done. 6.5 hours for two journeyman.

    IMG_4136.JPG IMG_4139.JPG IMG_4141.JPG IMG_4142.JPG IMG_4143.JPG IMG_4144(1).JPG IMG_4145.JPG IMG_4148.JPG
     
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  5. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti Senior Member

    That will be there a very, very long time.
     
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  6. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Agreed Mike.

    They're paying enough for sure. I want it to last and look good 25-50 years. Why not.
     
  7. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    Very nice work!
     
  8. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I really miss doing work like that... I think my career peaked when I was 25 lol
     
  9. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    i've read some products say to put down when the temp is dropping, I wonder if that's why it took long to set.
     
  10. Steve Olson

    Steve Olson Hardwood/Laminate Guru Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Beautiful! Love seeing jobs like this.
     
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  11. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    ***********************
    The HVAC shuts off automatically when the shcool day ends........or maybe when the employees leave. Anyways it can be reprogrammed, but only from the main district maintenance yard. So I allowed that 67 would be minimally acceptable. I do beef up the notches a hair to compensate. Normally, it's hot enough here that the concern is AC and not heat. When it's outside where I'm comfortable installing I ask them to set the thermostat to 72-75 degrees. I think Mondo has adjusted their formula for the glue as it seems to take longer to tack/set. I'd generally prefer about an hour or an hour and a half of working time. That's plenty with tile. I like to roll the tile 3 times about 20 minutes apart and hand roll any seams that aren't grabbing.
     
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  12. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    This logo would look quite a bit better were it about 1/3 to 1/2 the size. Not sure if it's perceptable through the photos. Believe me, it looks SWEET in person but the 4M x 5M size makes it hard to even see that it's a ram.........the school mascot. In this instance I'm thinking it would have been better were it substantially smaller. They'll not think or see that. They're gonna just love it. I promise.

    IMG_4149.JPG IMG_4151.JPG IMG_4168.JPG IMG_4166.JPG IMG_4167.JPG
     
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  13. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti Senior Member

    Not sure if it applies to your Urethane but for some moisture/humidity increased accelerates setup time. So humidity could’ve been low. I’ve seen somewhere on a video they were spritzing the product with water mist.
     
  14. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter I Support TFP

    Looks great!

    Probably that size to look good from the bleachers, no?
     
  15. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    ***********************
    Thanks.

    The bleachers are a couple hundred yards away at least outside on the other corner of this enormous campus; maybe the biggest one I've ever seen. . The Mondo flooeing is inside a cafeteria that the ladies told me isn't going to be used for the general students lunch----- but for teachers, admin and Saturday school sessions, special events and so on.

    The room is 14M x 19M or roughly 45' x 63'
    The logo is 4M x 5M

    So it's too big for the room and too big to maintain the image of the mascot. If you didn't show me the picture of the mascot and tell me it was a ram I don't expect I would immediately recognize it--------even as some kind of head of any kind of animal. You kind of have to be there to see.
     
  16. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti Senior Member

    It looks mad and ready to blow steam!

    Glad it’s not at entry where mats should be placed, or Logo on a mat where everyone wipes their feet on dirtying it up.
     
  17. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    "The Kid"..(39 year old just turned journeyman) goes back tommorow for cove base, walk off mats and peel away the masking tape.

    All in it was one day for two guys to Koster
    two days for two guys for prep
    4 days for two guys to install
    + half a day for one guy to base and carpet mats
    Roundabout 116 man hours
    Real quick rough guestimate on the labor (only) costs--$2 a foot.

    NOT including demo and shot blasting

    IMG_4175.JPG
     
  18. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti Senior Member

    What determines water blasting abrasives versus dry bead blasting. It looked from the removal picture and info that it possibly curled the vct or at least the stripper infiltrated the slab inward along the joints.
     
  19. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    ********************
    This shotblast job was done to perfection IMHO and very typical of everything I usually see only cleaner and more consistent. Not sure WTF you're refering too as far as joint/vct/stripper/infiltration.

    Koster wants CSP #3.............if my recollection is correct. I just know what it needs to look like. I'm there, at that point I'm not asking for outside confirmation, opinion, specifications, whatnot.

    I expect and nearly always see the STAINS along the old apshalt-asbestos tile seams from decades of moisture and alkaline salts passing through the slab up through the tile seams. So that's EVERY job. The demo here was VCT but what you're able to see from my photos are 9"x9" joints, obviously from the original asphalt asbestos tile (1957) Subsequent to the original install at least one replacement/overlay installation of VCT occured. The head custodian is a young man but now that you spark my curiosity I would have liked to ask someone who might have been around longer what the actual history of that room as far as flooring was. Generally SOMEONE on campus has been around forever and a day.

    They call me after all that crap is haggled over pricewise, quality wise and meeting various specifications wise. So I'm not in that loop, so to speak but I can offer you my somewhat experienced perspective. The water blasting is "the shits" as we say but it's just such a crazy operation I don't know how it could be done cost COMPETITIVELY with the shot blasting on the standard project. The onliest time I worked with the water blasters was under very extreme and specialized circumstances where shotblasting was infeasible due to the site conditions.

    I don't think there's a difference in the end product of those operations if sufficient time and money were allowed for and the operators were skilled and experienced with that equipment. In other words water blasting and shot blasting can give equivalent results but not necessarily equivalent costs and constraints.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  20. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti Senior Member

    I’m not sure of the direction of moisture(both ways)movement that causes damage. I believe it’s from the strong alkaline floor stripper chemicals (especially back in the day, pre California regulations) when flooded then wicks into the slab through the joints, plenty of dwell time, flooded floors.
     
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