Shower remodeling

Discussion in 'Ceramic and Stone Q&A' started by jfloor, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. jfloor

    jfloor New Member

    I am planning on remodeling our shower. The current shower was built poorly with no vapour barrier. Once I ripped out the old vinyl like layer I found dry wall behind it. The plan is to take the dry wall out up to the shower length and then add cement board(HardieBacker). After that I am planning on installing Schluter®-KERDI-DS waterproof membrane. Lastly we are planning on installing the porcelain or ceramic tiles on it. My few concerns are as follows:

    a) Is this a good design to implement or am I missing something?

    b) Should I remove the complete walls or only to the length of shower (pic img_0511)? Pictures attached for review. I heard mixed thing on the internet and I wanna make sure I do the right thing.

    Thanks for all your help.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2019
  2. epoxyman

    epoxyman Pro Member

    I would just rip it out completely
    That little bit above the shower head might be more of a pain trying to get the new walls flat and tight together
  3. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member Senior Member

    If you have cement board you don't need the Schluter. Just install over red gard which you put on your cement board.
  4. I would tile to ceiling, my wife confirmed this theory when she asked me how she splashed some shampoo above the bullnose tile on drywall. She seems to get offended when I say “only you”

    It’s easier, maybe cheaper, looks better. I like Redgard but check applying it to highly absorptive Hardiboard, not sure if you have to thin out or damp sponge to allow proper bond, even the Thinset if you Kerdi may need dampening first.
  5. Lazarus

    Lazarus Pro Member

    HARDIBACKER IS not CEMENT BOARD. I would use an actual cement board like Durock. Sure, you can Redgard it....but I prefer to put up Kerdi fabric...and, with that, you can use plain drywall. Trust this: it WILL be waterproof.
  6. Adroit

    Adroit Pro Member

    I prefer to just use wedi on everything I’ve never had a problem with it and it’s the easiest shower system I’ve ever used. And I agree with mike I tiled my ceiling as well.
  7. Hardi board has no business being in a wet area.
    Wonder board, durock or equivalent is the only thing acceptable in a wet area other than the shower systems, wedi, schluter etc.

    For an area that small & having a shower pan, i would opt for wedi or kerdi with the screw system & waterproof seam sealer. Done deal
  8. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    Or save a buttload of money and just use aqua defence. There is so much wasted over engineering in shower systems these days it makes my head spin
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. What’s your theory on this?

    I prefer Hardiboard over Durock due to rigidity, not crumbling apart when screwed, probably some more reasons.

    That said, Drywall has no business in wet area due to install/engineering issues, you have to calculate failure in a “system” this is called backup system. Do it in everything you do, I’m learning this in a 50k$ truck in the shop just purchased, my ol trucks got transmission issues. It’s going to get repaired.

    I like how Hardiboard is more rigid than Durock across stud span which movement can cause grout cracking appearance. My new house has some beautiful high end fiberglass showers (I’m fn kidn, they disgust me! Who’s got time to redo the world?)I would assume do to all of the tile worlds issues.

    I really don’t like tile on ceiling, maybe just a personal preference but also if it’s an emergency shelter I like soft drywall hitting my head verse sharp objects falling from above. Tiled up to ceiling looks better, no bs more bullnose makes shower appear bigger etc.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. I feel that way because I do calculate failure.
    I have torn out many failed showers/ wet areas & seen what water does to hardi board. It's also something I was taught from day 1, No hardi or mastic in a wet area. Heeding that advice has served me well.

    In theory, if it's all waterproofed after its hung then there shouldn't be any issues............but s#it happens.

    As for why use the engineered products? I'm tired of hauling cement board & cutting outside in a dusty mess when the wind never stops blowing in your face no matter what way you turn in 2' of snow. I'll take those super light panels that I can cut with my utility knife right next to my workspace! Dont piss on German engineering Marcus, lol
    • Like Like x 1
  11. I’ll piss on any engineering I believe is foolish. Especially BMW, Occasionally VW, but basically I called my 2014 Denali a piece of shit today to my neighbor because it had/has some issues.

    What does water do to Hardiboard?
  12. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I take a 5 gallon pail and a paint roller up to a shower, paint, wait paint tile. I waterproofed a plywood box out of curiosity one day, works like magic. Why waste money and time and effort for nothing. ESPECIALLY when everyone and their bloody dog is using porcelain tile anyhow, the permeability of that stuff is so low coupled with non-Portland based grouts, no bloody water is getting behind it anyhow... that being said, i still waterproof everything in wet areas
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Turns it into moldy nasty mush.

    That German engineering thing was just a bit. I don't really care who makes it as long as its user friendly.

    As long as it's done right & your waterproofing is tighter than a duck's arse, either way works great. I just prefer not dealing with the mess of cement board.
  14. Kman

    Kman Tile Expert I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    Kerdi DS is used for continuous use steam rooms or similar applications. It's really just overkill for a residential shower. Regular Kerdi is just fine.

    As for the wall board, I wouldn't use Hardi either, especially if I were using Kerdi. Hardi is very dry and draws the moisture out of the mortar very quickly. There are other reasons, but that's the main point with respect to the question at hand.

    Schluter recommends plain white sheetrock behind Kerdi. Why do they recommend that, knowing that water can damage it? Because their product works. So no water will get behind the membrane. If you trust your waterproofing layer, then there's no valid reason to use cement board. If you want assurances that it'll work, wait a couple of days and do a flood test.

    And I would follow Epoxyman's advice regarding removing the drywall all the way to the ceiling, and for the same reasons he gave.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. I disagree with Sheetrock, not a fan of it at all. I despise it, but, we all need to build with an economic product.

    Here’s a picture of Sheetrock that my in-laws had a leak behind the wall. Total tear out, time to renovate. I guess it’s how you look at things in life, could be a positive. They’re staying in our unit, so much for a getaway that I haven’t been to in at least 6 months.

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