Shaw Floorte Major issues? Anyone else?

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Fredericks Floors, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I have about 6 jobs out there, commercial and residential, and no problems at all. We installed the first batch in front of our store office area. Working with it I quickly found that taking a mallet and pounding the end joints down was the way to go. That might be the trick to installing it.
     
  2. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    That's how we installed it as well. For the stubborn ends I used a steel hand roller.
     
  3. j248

    j248 I Support TFP

    I didn't read the following post where you said you called them... my fault
     
  4. j248

    j248 I Support TFP

    It all varies from the OEM factory that gets the license from either locking system company. A bad factory can have either, but make the profiles and such poorly. A poorly made machine will made any click product more difficult to install and give less tension strength. Drop down seems like the easiest, though I have never been a big fan of it due to the fact the if you lift a connected plank up, it will most likely break the short end and or badly damage it's short end...I learned the hard way. These planks have to be slid horizontally to separate.

    I am not aware for a number rating system for strength, I have seen test results for both, and the short end on the villange was stronger, while the long side with uniclic is stronger. Metroflor seems to have chosen both systems for their benefits on the isocore product. Armstrong has what appears to be Villange 5g on their click lock but names get made up the same way finishes do, so it become difficult to tell

    I hope that helps a little
     
  5. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    They put out an installation tips bulletin a few months ago and in it they stated they want you to tap just to the side of the joint so you aren't directly hitting the seam. They also recommend putting the row in without tapping, then install the next row before going back and tapping the previous row end joints in. This will help to make sure the boards are lined up. To me, I read it as they are coming up with a way to work around they system that is failing.
     
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  6. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    I just wanted to follow up with everyone on this thread, although it has been quiet for quite some time. After a long battle with Shaw, they did honor a credit allowing me to replace our customers floors. I took the product out of my showroom until the spring of 2017. I brought in a few boxes of material and did some testing on the boards. I was unable to replicate the failures we were seeing and I gave it another chance. Since then we have sold a good amount of the Floorte without issue. We even made a youtube music video testing it. It held up extremely well with no failures at all. I have been meaning to post this for some time since the final result was good. I am not sure if there was a few bad runs of this material, or the locking system was tweaked but I do feel comfortable selling this product again. I am however much more pick about flatness in subfloor when I spec out the floorte product.



     
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  7. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Thanks for the follow-up. And I really enjoyed the videos. :good:
     
  8. Floor Boss

    Floor Boss Flooring Professional and Mgr. I Support TFP

    We did our first Florte on 10/10/15. The installers struggled a bit and we did a lot of leveling to avoid asbestos abatement in the 'middle' dining room. No fun. We had problems. Some joints were failing.
    Then we received a bulletin from Shaw, after the fact. 1/21/16.
    Shaw sent us some replacement boards and they got installed.... repair style with glued joints.
    upload_2017-12-22_9-3-37.png Several months later, they ended up with this.....
    We had an inspector go out and they faulted the materials. Another month or two went by with no real resolution.
    I must have made 6 or 7 visits to this location trying to wrap my head around this.
    A second inspection was ordered and the same inspector faulted the installation claiming that we did not level adequately. His pictures and mine highlighted the uneveness. My boss was resigned to admit defeat and just replace the install, but then I questioned (as someone else did in this forum) the uneven claim because the lippage was taking place in completely flat areas!!!
    So, the client did not buy the explanation either, so I got the boss to push back and we finally got back up from Shaw with replacement materials. I drew up a plan that would salvage a few areas and in May of 2017 (that's a year and a half of client patience) we installed the replacement planks.
    I'll be honest, I did not trust the end joints, even with the updated bulletin, so we glued ALL the End Joints taking care not to get any glue on the side joints.
    The install was flawless, the client was happy and a year and a half of effort.... we finally figured out Florte.
    upload_2017-12-22_9-28-6.png
    The client hasn't had any problems since!
    DB
     

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  9. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    We glued all our butt joints on Floorte just because that is the weakest point. We used Titebond wood glue. Not so permanent that you couldn’t take the floor apart but enough to keep the end joints from separating down the road.

    It’s sad that Shaw won’t do jack for you unless you are willing to put up a fight. Customer no service is the name of their game. I feel like my quality has to be on par for a rental unit when I’m working with Shaw. The job has to be damn near bullet proof even if I have to sacrifice something in the visual department.
     
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  10. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    Nice work and and awesome effort on your part. I would imagine that customer is going to give you a lot of word of mouth.
     
  11. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    Titebond is a great idea. We did some initial repairs using CA (superglue) that worked well to get the faulted ends back in place. Shaw purchased US Floors (Coretec) in October of 2016 and I believe their owner is now the head of Shaw Hard surface so I have seen some positive changes. However it seems the manufacturers are now pushing out the "rigid core" products so who knows what that means for WPC.
     
  12. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    Ultimately, they're evolving to be one and the same. Even US Floors/Shaw references Coretec as a "Rigid Core" product as well as a WPC for water proof core.
     
  13. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    I was under the impression WPC stood for Wood Polymer Composite which is extruded plastic and bamboo dust. I know the rigid core has a higher PSI rating to help resist denting, but honestly I have had zero issues with denting on any WPC brand I have used.
     
  14. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    Somewhere in a post a few months back we (Pros) were talking about the evolution in terminology surrounding "WPC". You are correct that originally that was what the acronym stood for but it has changed to become more commonly understood to mean Water Proof Core. They were definitely the originator of the category and still appear to make a pretty darn good product.

    I've been told, but haven't really done much research to verify it, that Coretec has quietly gone to a core that contains no wood pulp or dust but is totally PVC, much like the rest of the industry is doing since the Shaw acquisition. Going to have to call my friend who works for them and get the inside scoop. If I find out for sure, I'll let you know.
     
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  15. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    CA glues work but there is no unclicking of the floor without destroying the glued planks. If I was just doing a spot repair, CA all day. For full installs, a small bead of Titebond on the bottom side of the dropping planks butt joint kept many problems at bay.
     
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  16. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    Yes this makes total sense!
     
  17. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    I'm not surprised to hear that. I actually never fully understood why you would include the bamboo dust because to me adding a wood product to a floor deemed water proof seemed like a silly idea. In my own head all I could think was "well US Floors specializes in Bamboo so they probably had a bunch of dust laying around and they said, hey lets just stick this in here." :D
     
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  18. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Titebond is a manufacturer of many “types” of adhesives. Wood glue? PVA? Poly vinyl acetate? CA could mean construction adhesive?

    So what exact product is used for these joints? Approved by flooring manufacturer? Just for my(or others) curiosity as I hope to hell to never have to install these floating islands.
     
  19. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Wood glue. I believe I usually get Titebond 2. Cyanoacrylate, or CA for short, is super glue. I’m sure none of this is manufacture approved. It’s just what I have been doing to bulletproof my installations. The butt joints on Floorte are the weak point. Manufacture won’t stand behind their product without a serious fight. The shop may or may not care to fight on your behalf. I could either have it out with someone and then find a new shop to work for (not a good option) or I could squirt a little glue on each... and... every... butt... joint. It does add time to the job but I’ve had only one issue and that was a 400# person with a walker and selitac was used on that job. After that we quit using any underlayment and started glueing the butt joints. Even with glueing the joints, it’s still an enjoyable product to work with.
     
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  20. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    I talked with Shaw technical way back about doing the repairs and they agreed with the CA glue. Never talked about using a titebond type adhesive though. I know though however the product can be installed with a full spread adhesive. I'm 99% sure it would be Shaw S200.

    I would agree that the product is really nice to work with. I should have mentioned that since relaunching the Floorte in our shop we only use the Floorte Plus (which has the attached cushion.) We had "complaints" on the original Floorte without cushion that it made a tapping noise when youd walk across it. Basically that hard back on the product would tap against the subfloor. After that we used Selitac everywhere until we took a break from using the product.
     
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