Shaw Floorte Major issues? Anyone else?

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Fredericks Floors, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    I have been battling with Shaw for the past year on failing installations of their Floorte products. Before that it was their thinner Chatham plank floors that were expanding and contracting at insane rates causing peaking and gapping. I isolated the issues to mostly areas of natural sunlight exposure. Anyway, the Floorte "Enhanced Vinyl Placing" has become a major pain in our necks over here. End gaps won't lock in and hold over time being the main issue. The engineering on that locking system is sub par for the use. I have about $12,000 in claims pending and being dragged out and Shaw is telling me that there are no other dealers experiencing these issues. I find that hard to believe as we are a very high end store with quality installers. We have been in business over 50 years based just on our reputation and to discredit my company, knowledge and skill level is flat out insulting. I have meetings after meetings with no resolution. I am looking for some back up from other Shaw Dealers (I am a Shaw Gallery BTW, which makes this much worse.) Please share any stories of similar issues to help my fight my case and serve my customers with the quality that they should be receiving.

    Thank you
    Nick
     
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    If it were me personnally, I would have the plank analyzed for content. Then I would contact L&M services, not sure if their biased, but like an attorney in Florida says, Morgan & Morgan, " for the people"

    I never believe "the only one with this problem" it usually means you're the biggest pain being persistent fighting till the end.
     
  3. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Have you had a professional flooring inspector come look at your problems? You can search for an independent inspector for your area here: NICFI - Inspector Search There may also be other organizations that have flooring inspector members.
     
  4. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    Yes when I filed the initial claim an inspection was done by a "3rd party inspector" paid by shaw. His report was completely inaccurate and I have already proven it to be false. Oh and I am sure I am just being the biggest pain in the butt to them. I have a meetin with them later today and we will see how it goes. Just curious to hear other people's experiences.
     
  5. JPfloor

    JPfloor Pro Member

    I can verify you are not the only one with that problem. I am an installer, not a dealer. I've only done a few jobs with Floorte but I had problems getting the butt ends to "click" on all of them. I deem the locking mechanism to be faulty and of poor design... Unfortunately for you, and me, my opinion doesn't count for much...:cool:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'll second what JP said. It's a faulty system. Had a job go south with this stuff and the ends don't hold down. Claim was denied from Shaw.
     
  7. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Hire your own "3rd party inspector".

    Here is one that is considered by many to be honest and ethical.
    FloorWorks Inspection Services  - Flooring Inspector 
     
  8. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    Shaw won't yet admit they have a problem with this floor. In their report it stated that we, as installers didn't cull out enough of the bad planks! It's simply not true, all of the ends of the planks are faulty because of a poor design. And with a product like this defects are almost always initially visible.
     
  9. j248

    j248 Pro Member

    something having to do with the the sub-floor, not level enough for whatever they want to name the click system...Though this can often be an issue with click products and having the deepest pockets imaginable, I dont see why they don't invest in a 5g Villange system rather than a 2g.


    Kyle an I close to what the denial might have been from your end? I would def understand if didn't wish to disclose in a public forum
     
  10. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    They said floor wasn't flat enough. True, the floor had its flaws and we had one weekend to do ahorrible tear out and install, however, the fault is not in the subfloor . This can be proven by finding the same problems in the flattest places in the floor. I installed a job soon after with the same product over stapled down hardwood, same problems over a near perfect floor. Super glue is the only fix I found and it's not a great one.
     
  11. Floor Boss

    Floor Boss Flooring Professional and Mgr. I Support TFP

    yup, not the only one.... I've dealt with similar issues with other products by this mfgr. mostly of the least expensive types... insane expansion. Our store has pretty good replacement relations with Shaw, but I've convinced our staff not to sell the real cheap stuff along with installations. It's not fair to our installers.
    On the aside, we've had the exact same problem with they type product, but from a different mfgr. Two inspections and over a year has gone by with two varying reports. I also personally inspected the problem and even though the end joints were showing stress, my main concern was the denting and scratching. Couple that with the lack of information, lack of training our sales staff, and a general denial of any culpability.
    All I can think of is that the MFGR's sales staff were much better at Sales than our staff. They got us to sell their 'lemons'.
    I love LVP glued down. Floating/Click is only good for small areas that have light furniture.
    DB
     
  12. j248

    j248 Pro Member

    Yea that was kind of one of my top 3 assumptions, 2nd was raptor snot. That locking system is just a 2g villange one I think, and not to knock them at all, but I have heard this from various other click lock products. Drop lock is easy to install mostly, but more difficult to uninstall without ruining the short edges. I prefer uniclic...Riding a bike like learning curve for s diy type, but more secure all around imo

    PS, is there anything superglue cant provide great help with?
     
  13. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    I even met with one of the lead installers from Shaw and he straight out told me that they would never use a drop n lock system on a laminate that was as thin as the floorte because it will work apart. However, they used it on the Floorte which being vinyl based is more flexible.

    @kyle - the tolerance is 1/8" over 6' for the Floorte, but same as you, we are seeing it in areas that are completely flat. Armstrong actually states that they have a 0 tolerance and that the floor has to be perfectly flat. Unrealistic to achieve this on every job, but I do believe their locking system is far better and will hold up. At least this is what we are seeing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I would really like to see that in print!!
     
  15. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member


    You won't is the thing. It's not in the installation guide so I actually called the tech department to find out and they told me zero. Check the link below for the installation PDF.

    http://www.armstrong.com/content2/flooring/files/91340.pdf
     
  16. j248

    j248 Pro Member

    Amen...knowing and dealing with this stuff daily sometimes we might forget that adverting and names aren't always the best products. I like Metroflor and their slogan, a well as earthwerks's. that is what they do
     
  17. j248

    j248 Pro Member

    you mean the must be flat part? If that is what you are referring to, that is no different than any click product
     
  18. Fredericks Floors

    Fredericks Floors Pro Member

    Sorry, I'm not sure which part of my post you are questioning.

    Yes most floating floors have 1/8" over 6' or 1/4" over 10' as standards. That is not out of the ordinary.

    What the installer from Shaw was telling me is that the Floorte is 6.5mm thick and more flexible than a laminate. However, they will not use this same type of locking system on a 6.5mm laminate because it will flex to much and the joints will release. Whether he was talking about his pay grade or not I don't know.
     
  19. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

  20. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I will be interested in the side strength discussion that J248 speaks of. How it's rated and the number system.

    I am strongly against this system, mostly because it might be a hassle of locking in every piece, but then it being able to stay connected, then with substrate having undulations, defying physics.
     
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