Shaw Commercial Certification

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by Chris Mha, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    Anyone gone through this training course? Detroit is the last stop of the year for this training course. I have already signed up and have several friends that have signed up.

    Dealing with Bow, Skew, Pattern matching amoung a few.

    The agenda looks very full for day 1.
    Day 2 is a written and performance test.
  2. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Chris, you will have a good time and tell the Shaw guys I said hi and to take it easy on you.

  3. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    I'll do that Roland. They come in Dec. 3-4.
  4. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    What does that cost you to get a sheepskin that says you know what you already know? ;)

    Does it get you Shaw work at their already ridiculously low rates? :poke: :eek:
  5. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    That's how I feel about all certifying bodies. A certificate and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee. Actual training would be great. But to just be tested on things you already know, what's the point?
  6. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    No Cost. Two days off work which is not to big a deal since we have no work here in Detroit anyway. Education never hurts. I have been want ing to go to Dalton for this course but finances have been to tight to make the trip.
  7. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Rusty it tells other people that you actually know what you know. :)

    The problem I have with them is most are just bought or given with no need to really know.
    There is no accreditation system setup with these certifying organizations.

    While I generally dislike additional layers of oversight/management there is no accrediting body available in our industry that says that the information/curriculum that these certification organizations are putting out is accurate or transferable.
    Mohawk, Shaw, Beuileu or any other carpet company can certify you but why should you need to have a cert from each company when the same stuff is or should be taught at each? :confused:
    Also there should be some accountability that the "students" actually earn their grade. :eek:
  8. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    Sounds like Roland has been through this. Roland, is this a Pass/Fail certification?

    According to the agenda, the second day is a written exam and a performance exam.

    I agree that if a certification is involved it needs to be on Pass/Fail basis.
  9. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    Chris, it's nice that it was free. If a young installer, with wife and kids, goes to certs, it can be expensive. Two days missed work, travel, food and cost of paying for a certification can run $2,000. For that they can get a certificate, they may be proud of, but it will mean no more money in the real world. The average retailer will not pay an installer more because they have a certificate. And in the long run, we are all in this to make a living.
  10. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    If you can pick up just one little trick to make it easier, better, quicker than its worth it. I did not know shaw had one that travels. Looked it up and they have one is Seattle. I will be attending next year for sure. Thanks Chris for your post!

  11. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Gentlemen will all respect and honor to you, I have a question for you. What do installers do with their money? Inspectors, doctors, mechanics, and many other trades HAVE to have continuing education or they are not allowed to work. This requires them to pay for the training, pay for the travel, pay for the meals, and all other associated expenses.

    What would happen if a law was past that in the next 60 days an installer had to go to a training school such as CFI, Shaw, Mohawk, Beau., WFCA, NWFA, CTFA and get certified in order to do any type installation You had to be certified in each floor type). Could it be afforded then? I have been in the flooring trade more years than many of you are old and "I can not afford it" has been the cry since year one.

    I firmly believe education will eventually do away with the hacks. At some point the manufacturers are going to tie installers to their warranties and if the dealer hires hacks he has no warranties, advertising money, and special pricing.

    We are entering into a time of our lives that things are happening in the business world never experienced before. With tight money, builders or the rocks, home foreclosures, reduced sales how can dealers continue to eat jobs hacked in? The consumer is still going to purchase floor covering and they will demand it be done right only one time. All of you true educated craftsmen and women will get the work. Not because the dealer wants you, but because they cannot afford the hack and suddenly your price is good.

    I submit this respectfully and 100% on your side.

  12. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    Tandy, All those trades you mention make far more money than installers and always will make more.
  13. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    Very good post Tandy!

  14. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Rusty I have written checks to installers many times, and I must respectfully disagree with you.

    My wife was in the legal side for 35 years, my daughter-in-law is in the medical side now, and I know of attorney's and medical personal including doctors that have empty pockets. Once established they probably do, but in the meantime it is tough and they must keep up with education or they never will become established.

    I had one installer that regularly bought gold bullion. No telling how much gold he has now. BTW he is still installing. I agree with you---man it is rough out there. Hang in there my friend.

  15. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Will they then quit selling to DIYer's and stores that cater to them? I doubt it.

    Usually the employers pay for the Continuing Ed classes including paid time off and per diem expense accounts. ;)
    So usually they aren't out anything.
  16. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    In all of my years I have gone to one certification class that was free to me. However, I had to pay my travel and other expenses. I as well as most other inspectors have many thousand dollars invested in our education and training. In addition no one paid me for the work I missed. Really there are no free lunches out there, and we all have to pay our way one way or another.

    Also, I have found that most (not all) free classes are worth exactly what you pay for them.:)
  17. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Yes Chris it is a pass or fail you will need to earn it.
    I used to think the same thing why would I need to go to trainings I have made a good living doing it and have a good reputation but then I meet people like Dobby and others and found out there was so much more now I can ask and get more for doing my job.

  18. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Tandy I would agree with Robert as well. Rememer that DVD I sent you. In a way it says it all of what is happening here and I reckon the same will happen with USA. BUT the suppliers will still sell to the cowboys to get a sale
  19. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    As independents we are stuck with all the cost, employees on the other hand usually get that stuff covered. ;)

    In the real world that most installers work in we have to bid jobs against the uneducated. It doesn't pay. Low bidder gets the job.

    Retailers and mills just close their eyes and hope that the customer will write the check for the crappy installs they buy. :eek:

    Then to top it off we get screwed by the mills with their ridiculously low going rates for repair work. :yell:

    If they believe differently they are just conning themselves. :eh:
  20. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    I talked with Roger Gerber just a few minutes ago and he spoke with Shaw and this class has maxed out at 40 installers or inspectors. He says that they are sending up the whole installation team. Now hopefully everyone shows up. You better believe I will be handing out business cards of my own as well as The Floor Pro cards.

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