Run pad over stair tread edge or not?

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by Westing, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Since day one[51years] I have always covered the nose. Hollywood style just to the bottom of it. Waterfall style down onto the riser.

    :old:

    Daris
     
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  2. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    This is how I did it for most of my 35 years:

    pad-on-upholstered-steps.jpg pad-on-upholstered-steps2.jpg pad-on-upholstered-steps3.jpg

    If the tape didn't hold, I could drive a few staples through the tape, under the nosing. I wanted to keep the nose itself as smooth as possible. I think that last photo is from someone else, but they used the same principle.
     
  3. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member

    Ok !! No More Mister Nice Guy, ( To quote Ingognito )

    If you work ' Top Down ' stapling the nose area is not necessary. I am living breathing proof. I'll take a wild guess, 300 flights or more, in the past 10 to 14 years. Believe me !! I replace what was installed over and over again and
    there are no issues.

    Sure, I can man up and use a 4'' scraper, tucking knife, staple remover or better yet ' da helper ' to remove them and believe me, I have removed thousands ! Again IMHO Unnecessary staples. Most
    flights can be worked ' TOP DOWN ' and the lost time peeking and correcting curled back pad, is saved by eliminating the time to staple. Lets face it, your
    probable peeking for the curled pad now, even though you stapled over the nose. Then again, I could be full of shatoci mushrooms :p

    Give it a try !
     
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  4. FlooringFashions

    FlooringFashions They call me Brian

    I do not believe the pad needs to be wrapped around the stair nose. but in this case the installer had the pad behind the front of the nose. i cut the pad after fastening it to the tread by riding my blade along the front of the nose. i do not get that effect of the 2 lines this way even with the cheapest of carpets. if i pre-cut the pad for the tread for whatever reason i fasten the front edge first to align it. if the pad was too far from the back riser or crooked you would see that also. some installers do not believe pad needs to be neat and can be installed sloppy because it is covered by the carpet. this is a great example that is not true and i believe that is all this proves. honestly i do not care when i hire a mechanic witch way he does it as long as the same technique is used in the whole house. thanks for sharing this. also since the pad is cut too far back the same effect would of happened if they were installed Hollywood.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  5. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I disagree with that method. You seem to think the carpet only needs to be protected from the top, not from glancing or angled forces across the edge of a step. I don't think the pad has to go under the nose, but I do believe it needs to go over the leading edge of the nose.
     
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  6. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member

    Welcome to TFP Flooring Fashions and thanks for sharing, keep them coming. Nice Avatar ! is that a Masland pc. ?
     
  7. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I just came off a house with wool carpet on stairs and you can see that the pad is not over the nose thus wearing on the carpet from the traffic. It also feels hard as a rock right on the point you hit coming down the stairs. It aint right.
     
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  8. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    I've never seen weat like that in person, but I never see pad short of the nose either. If the pad goes fully to the edge it's highly unlikely to happen
     
  9. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    This i cannot ever understand is something that is open for debate. Pad goes over nosing, Period. That is like saying glue does not go under rotogravure vinyl. The Carpet and Rug Institute says pad goes over nosing, be it wraps or waterfall. Manufacturers say pad goes over nosing, why is it that installers argue about it. Protecting that nosing with pad not only allows the carpet to be cushioned as it moves on the stair with traffic but second to that it allows for less hollows or voids behind the backing, as pressure or "stretch" is applied over the nose the pad will compress and form to the contours of the nosing and the radius in the rug. If padding a nosing is causing visual defects it unfortunately means it is being done improperly.

    Just my two cents, however being in Canada, i suppose its only a penny and a half
     
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  10. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    That's some good shit. I don't care if you are a Canuck. ;) Send me a pic of something I can make you an avatar from. jim at thefloorpro dot com
     
  11. mcurrin

    mcurrin Charter Member Published

    The stair nosing should be rounded off as well Per CRI standards also from CRI
    15.0 Carpet on Stairs
    The following section covers proper procedures for installing carpet on stairs. 15.1 Preparation It is required that the stair tread, riser and stair nose should be clean, dry and structurally sound. The stair nose return should be rounded 3/4 to 1 inch (19 to 25 mm) to prevent sharp stair edges from cutting carpet and/or cushion, and to provide proper carpet contact for adhesive installations. When carpet is installed over a separate cushion, extend the cushion over the stair nose.


    Mike
     
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  12. FlooringFashions

    FlooringFashions They call me Brian

    I do not think pad is going to protect the carpet on the nose anyway. I have steps installed in lots of of my family homes and replaced some of my own work in my parents and sisters homes also. I do not see the nose to be a problem on any of them or the steps i rip up every day. I have seen some nose rips with pad over the nose and with out. I dont think it matters either way. To me it is two ways that look different. Any way this guys problem was the pad line he could see. As i was reading threw i did not see anything that really addressed that problem. Just the same on the job site argument. witch way is right.
     
  13. FlooringFashions

    FlooringFashions They call me Brian

    I believe it is a stanton woven polypropylene. There indoor outdoor sisal lookalike. Quick tip. Cut this stuff with a hot knife to prevent instant unravelling.
     
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  14. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    It's your business, however, when the carpet manufacturer, the pad manufacturer and the CRI and CFI organizations tell you your way is wrong, maybe you should think again. But you don't have to if you don't want to.
     
  15. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member

    I'm sure we all do some wrong in the eyes of those organizations.

    Back in the day, when high end residential was our thing and stair work
    was daily, I would use left over pcs. of Doltonian or CRB padding for
    the stairs, knowing they take more abuse than rooms and hallways.

    The density of those pads are amazing and much more superior to
    synthetic felt for steps. However, if you ran the pad heavy over the nose 3/4 of an inch, it wouldn't want to lay flat on the tread, it became poofy.
    So ! we ran the pad just an 1/8'' to 1/4'' just past the edge of the nose.
    Is that considered over the nose ? .....I don't think so.....Will it provide
    addiquite protection from excessive wear ? .....Yes I believe IMHO it does
    and did. I see appx. one half inch of gray area on this subject.

    Mike
     
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  16. FlooringFashions

    FlooringFashions They call me Brian

    When sliding my blade across the nose and i angle the blade towards me i can get an 1/8 in. I was thinking about this during this discussion. Maybe i do run the pad pass the nose. I guess the answer is in the cri standards wording. I havent looked at it in a long time. Does it say pass, over, wrap or what the nose. Are there illustrations for idiots like me.
     
  17. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

  18. Paulina

    Paulina Member

    I am in Canada was reading this because I need to do MY stairs - I am in the Lower Mainland area of BC. You sound like the guy I am looking for for the job :)
     
  19. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I'm over on the island mate. There are a lot of qualified people over there. Just educate yourself and ask the right questions before it is too late and you will be ok! Seeing as you are already here, you are ahead of the curve :)
     
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