Run pad over stair tread edge or not?

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by Westing, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Westing

    Westing Member

    Hi, This is regarding a recent HDepot carpet and pad installation on our interior, non-finished wood stairway, stair treads that have a bullnose. From the little I know and have read, it seems that the pad should've been run over or around the stair tread's edge / bullnose, but in our case the pad didn't make it to the tread edge. As a result (or not, if you don't think the pad played a part), the tread edge doesn't look like other carpeted tread edges I've seen. To us, the carpet looks as if it has two creases or edges, just above and below the actual tread edge, as opposed to running smoothly around the tread edge, and thus I foresee wear issues. Hopefully the photos help. The stairs have had very little traffic so that hasn't played a part, it looked like this immediately after installation.
    HDepot wants to rectify it but they aren't sharing installation details, so I'd like to know if the pad should be run over the tread edge so I can ensure that gets done this time if it should.
    I'd also like to know if the Hollywood install method would be better or advised in my case. I think I'd prefer it, and did mention it to the installer, but I assume Waterfall goes quicker for them?
    Please tell me what other details you need and thank you in advance for your help!
     

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  2. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Unfortunately, even some of the pros here at TFP have argued that the carpet pad does not need to be wrapped over the edge of the stair tread, whether it's a bullnose or not. I am a staunch believer in covering the nose with pad and you just posted an excellent example why.

    Stretch-in carpet is intended to have cushion under it. Why some think that doesn't include one of the most beat upon and heavily trafficked part of the carpeted area is beyond me.

    Short answer: yes, the pad should cover the nose.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    I can get the argument of not wrapping the nose with colonial wrap but waterfall stairs always gets wrapped. That's why you are seeing that double line. One is from the actual stair nose and the other one is from the pad line and is accentuated when the carpet is kicked on and the pad wants to roll back on itself. If someone is going to fix your stairs, have them strip the sides as well as wrapping the pad over the nose.
     
  4. Darren Ramey

    Darren Ramey Charter Member

    Yes it should go over the nose. Considering they waterfalled those steps, there is no reason not to, it takes the same amount of time and effort to run the pad long and staple it to the face of the step.

    Now on upholstered steps, its a bit trickier to do. You don't want to run it all the way over the nose or you wont have a place to staple under there. If you run it partially over the nose it wants to roll back and look lumpy when you install the steps. I've taken to taping it down to prevent that. This is a lot more work, not to mention duct tape isn't cheap these days.

    At the very least that pad should come out flush with the edge of the stair to protect it. I partner up with my brother in law on anything he or I can't do solo, and I won't let him pad stairs anymore. They look like yours, and I can't convince him that it might cause problems down the road.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    O-Boy !! that's really Bad ! :eek: I hope they learn and
    improve on the next job.

    Hopefully they used tackless on the risers also, this way the existing carpet (berber /loop pile ) can be safely removed. If they stapled and by the look of the picture, they may have, then chances are the existing will become trash and new carpet will need to be installed.

    As for the Hollywood method, that needed to be discussed with
    you by the sales staff before the install.

    Best of luck and keep us informed of the out-come.

    Mike
     
  6. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    On second look, it does make me think they didn't use tackless anywhere on those steps except the back of the tread. :(
     
  7. Westing

    Westing Member

    That's what I see, only tackless on the back of the tread, so I'll try to get it on the sides and risers too, as advised here.
    About the no reason not to waterfall comment: Does that mean, when installed properly, waterfall and Hollywood are comparable in how they'll wear?
    BTW, the guy also installed an entire floor of our home, and I don't have any complaints on that work, so I guess he just can't do stairs. Maybe I got Darren's brother-in-law. ;)
    Great feedback, thanks to all!
     
  8. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    Thanks for the chuckle :yesss:

    Waterfall vs. Hollywood is aesthetics, unless you have size 12'' feet :eek: Jolly Green-Giant may ware the risers on waterfall method because of the heel rubbing against it.


    Ask for an interview with new installer who has pictures of quality
    stair installs. Then, if old installer is interested, have them help/ observe for training purposes. We want to be trained but the powers above us, for some crazy reason, like it the other way :confused:

    Demand new carpet for stairs !
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  9. Hanover Fist

    Hanover Fist Pro Member

    Hiya!
    As noted above, waterfall steps should have waterfall pad, and strip on riser as well as back of tread, creating a crease - at minimum. Best install also strips the sides of the tread at wall/stringer. There's really no other answer. So those steps are not right.

    My preference is Hollywood/upholstered steps, as they don't loosen on the riser over time (if done right) and don't look sloppy when the pad fails and the carpet loosens.

    Lots of debate on whether the nose gets padded in upholstered steps; I prefer not. I bevel-cut the pad so there's no edge telegraphing through the carpet. My reasoning is that every step is a 'room', and every room should have a grip on a hard-mount, be it bullnose or tackstrip to maintain a stretch. Otherwise when the pad deteriorates at the nose, that's where loose carpet shows. And no one likes how that looks after say, 6-8 years.
     
  10. Don Monfils

    Don Monfils PRO CARPET Charter Member

    Doesn't the Home Depot have free carpet installation?;)
    Our local Home Depot installers are a bunch of slackers that drive around in an old brown van, with New Jersey plates.
    We are a couple hundred miles from New Jersey .
     
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  11. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    I've seen more issues with pad going over the nose of the step than not (when not waterfalled). If waterfalled it's not even an option.
     
  12. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    There are the pictures of no pad over the nose and what it looks like. That is why we do it different now.
     

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  13. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    The reason for issues, comes from installers who prefer to start from the bottom and work their way up. That's ok if you have the patience and skill to staple the pad properly over the nose.
    Otherwise the pad can bunch up while wrapping the nose Hollywood style.

    I work top down 99% of the time for Hollywood style with no staples @ the nose and only 8 staples up by the riser, easy peasy ! :yesss:
     
  14. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    Exactly, and I don't know anyone working with a stair stretcher.
     
  15. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Yes you do. ME!! I have one and use it whenever I can. Works great for patterns and saving the knees.:yesss:

    :old:

    Daris
     
  16. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I don't install anymore, but when I did...
     

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  17. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    I bought a stair stretcher to use on a sizable stair runner job. Worked great for that job but unfortunately most stairs I run across don't have the necessary tread depth to use a stair stretcher on. I still have the stretcher. Sad thing is that i can't use it the majority of the time.
     
  18. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    You kinda know me too, Kyle....
     

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  19. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Just curious KW, do you have to do each step individually with the tool or do you just poke it threw the carpet like a stinger? It's called a scorpion if I remember right, right?

    :old:

    Daris
     
  20. Westing

    Westing Member

    I see the debate you're talking about, Mr. McClain. Unfortunately, I'm starting to get a little confused. :)

    You folks know each other better than I do. After all that's been shared, can someone possibly bottom-line it for me? That's my nice way of asking which opinions should I ignore? ;)

    I still think I'd prefer Hollywood install when they come back. Is Hollywood vs Waterfall only a personal pref, or does having bullnose treads kind of call for Hollywood to accentuate / make use of the bullnose edges?

    Or, do bullnose edges jutting out over the risers make Waterfall more troublesome?

    Then again, can HDepot even handle the Hollywood install if Waterfall didn't go so well? Anyone got a crystal ball in their toolbox? It may be next to your stair stretcher. ;)

    Here's where I'm leaning (in addition to my Hollywood pref):

    "Short answer: yes, the pad should cover the nose."

    "...have them strip the sides as well as wrapping the pad over the nose."

    "If someone is going to fix your stairs, have them strip the sides, the risers, as well as wrapping the pad over the nose."

    But can someone please reiterate how the pad should be affixed around the bullnose? Jim, in your photo, I see the tackless on the back of tread and at the bottom of the riser, and that you duct taped around the bullnose, and is that it? No staples in the pad because the pad will just come loose from the staples over time?

    Thanks again to all!
     
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