Riding Scraper Experience

Discussion in 'Ceramic & Stone Sales and Installations' started by SteveG, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. SteveG

    SteveG Pro Member

    We had a job recently that involved tearing our 2600SF of porcelain tile. We installed the tile originally and it was DOWN. Because of the size of the job, we rented a riding scraper and were less than satisfied with the result. The machine we rented was National Equipment (don't have it here to look at the model number) but boy did it let us down. Our guys with rotohammers were making progress at about the same rate as the guy on the rider. Out of the whole job, only 4 tiles came up mostly whole.. everything else was coming up in little bits.

    I've watched videos of guys running these things super fast - but I think something has to be different because we couldn't make any kind of speed or else the blade would just skip up on top of the tile.

    What's the deal? I feel like this has been a total bust. (No pun intended)

    2109.jpg 2111.jpg 2113.jpg
     
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    What blade did you use?

    Videos only show when things are beautiful, I never like to see easy stuff, not reality.

    You didn't say anything about the machine removing the thinset. Give us(Nick and I) some info to work on.

    And breathing Silica causes cancer.
     
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  3. SteveG

    SteveG Pro Member

    7079-4_angle-shank-with-carbide-tip.png The machine also failed to remove the thinset - sounds like we're just going to grind it.

    I can find out exactly which blades they used - but it looked just like this -
     
  4. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    It's obvious to me that you made a HORRIBLE mistake and now you are paying the price. Nationwide ceramic/porcelain/stone tiles are popping up like------easy money, thin set, mortar and all.

    The mistake you've obviously made is to install the flooring to a very high standard, if not even better than manufacturer and industry recommended practices. Flooring installs of nearly all sorts give very little consideration to easy demoliton should the customer change their preference or for whatever reason the materials need replacement.

    You're being punished for doing the job right.
     
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  5. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    image.jpg So I'm looking at pictures, Ford dealer, 8x8 porcelain I believe by Crossville. You guys installed, I didn't catch that. I agree you installed it properly, I could have nightmares about solidly bonded tile.

    We mostly remove tile with the chipping hammers, it's my decision sometimes I can choose either method, by evaluating sometimes it is not faster with ride on. Large open area, you still have to remove a line, then go into that line perpendicular 4 ft. Rows at a time to not drive over debris.

    I don't like the bit I see, the best one I've used is a 2" wide machined bit, very thin which rides on slab, so thinset is coming up as the scraper is going forward, the blade has an upward force due to the gradual angle to basically pry/pop the thinset away from tile.

    With the weight of machine, the weight at front, that keeps the blade firm on the slab if slab is hard enough to handle the force. Some machines do not have the total weight, or weight at the jaw, riding up onto surface is not an option.

    Could have been the 5700, their medium size, there's the 7500 which is heavier, but the tooling is still an issue, I've got many bits probably couple grand that I've found useless, I always resort to this one.
     
  6. SteveG

    SteveG Pro Member

    So - I chatted about this with the crews. They said they saw-cut all of the grout joints, and tried to run a row at a time like Mike mentioned. It was still a nightmare and now the thinset will still have to be ground. Basically if we can't come up with a better way to handle this demo we're going to go upside down from our bid on this job.

    [​IMG]

    We're bringing in one of these next week. Boss doesn't want to mess around - it'll be the Twister. Anyone have experience or thoughts on this machine?
     
  7. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Where's @SERNick, that's the machine they carry. Pretty dam heavy. Make sure you have plenty ventilation from the Exhaust Carbon Monoxide levels.

    So it all depends if the slab was steel troweled and didn't bond too well. We usually grind thinset off, another reason why we use jackhammers because the ride on doesn't get all the thinset, so we'll have to come back with grinders and smooth out the floor. I'm reluctant to leave a diamond grinded slab, the next flooring will bond a lot better.

    Speed will be a factor along with blade width. If thinset separates at slab, then all is well, also if slab is hard enough to prevent blade from digging in. If thinset is homogenous with slab, the blade will broach the surface. Blade width would be decreased for more downward pressure to maintain contact with slab.

    Chipping up tile could have determined how well the thinset bonded to slab.
     
  8. SSGNick

    SSGNick Pro Member

    The Twister is the TOP of the Line for floor scrapers. You will be very happy they got it. I have been selling this manufactures machines for years and they are the best.
     
  9. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I operated top of the line Caterpillar Excavators and Dozers one weekend at McDill AFB, not a clue what I was doing.

    The operator needs to know how to navigate the circumstances.
     
  10. SSGNick

    SSGNick Pro Member

    Well said Mike. I can only speak on the equipment. I do know that in a car race I would take a Ferrari over a Nissan but I still have no idea on how to race.
     
  11. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I don't know if I could learn how to drive a Ferrari fast enough, or crash first, I'm thinking the latter.

    Scrapers can be dangerous in many ways, bystanders/coworkers have to be alert. I don't like anyone around me while I'm operating, I prefer to pile one area, then go to another while someone is clearing/cleaning the previous tearout section.
     
  12. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Here's the National.

    And next picture is Tony Yokohamis's modified Innovatech scraper to keep the blade down. When we hired him I believe he said he had a machine shop and make all his own attachments.
     

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