Overlay Floor Prep w/out Grinding ?

Discussion in 'Floor Preparation' started by zooba72, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. zooba72

    zooba72 Member

    Hello Everyone - My basement slab has an old layer of cutback or mastic as well as some old carpet glue adhesive. The floor is solid and level and I would like to use some kind of a concrete overlay, but have no desire to grind the floor. I don’t want any of this material airborne – I understand that grinding wet will prevent some of this but we’re just not interested in grinding it. Is there anything I can use to prep this floor for an overlay without grinding? I have read about some primers that are designed for this purpose, but I’m unable to find much information about how well they work. Thank you in advance!
     

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  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I can’t see how anything will stay stuck. You will have to know what products are available to you, then see what that specific manufacturer has for your situation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. zooba72

    zooba72 Member

    Thanks for the reply. There are definitely products that are designed specifically for this situation, I just don't know whether they actually work. Hopefully someone who has has experience with these specialty primers will provide some advice and/or suggestions.
     
  4. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    That doesn't look that bad. Take a 4" scraper and some arm grease and get it up. Looks crystalized. What are you making of the floor? I do Vortex and surecrete, granicrete, elastocrete products. Also carpet, wood, lvt etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Take a utility knife and try to dig into the concrete to see how hard the slab is. That is an indication if it will separate from the adhesive layer.

    As Ken says scrape(if not asbestos) to remove the compressible(carpet adhesive) material away.
     
  6. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Just about every product out there will require cleaning or removing existing debris to get their product to stick.
     
  7. There are products made to encapsulate old "cutback" adhesive residues but even they have limitations. You still have to remove any trowel ridges and get the residue down to a "tobacco like - yellowish-brown" stain even to use those.

    APAC Encapseal and Dependable Cutdown are two such products. But in addition to still having to remove residual these products are also problematic in that they can be tricky to work with. They have pretty stringent drying and timing conditions in how long they must cure and how long they can set before having flooring applied. To quick and they can separate within themselves and too long and the new flooring or patching material may not bond properly. They are also not cheap products. The cost of doing it properly and removing it is typically much less expensive and time consuming than actually using these encapsulants.

    These encapsulant products also become another layer of complexity in the "chemical sandwich" that becomes your floor and one more point of possible failure. That's why removing them, following the appropriate safety precautions is best.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Before I forget, something else to consider here is a potential moisture issue. You didn't say how old the home / slab is and having had cutback down this could actually hide a moisture situation to a large degree.

    Make sure you take the time to properly moisture test so you know if you plan is achievable or not.
     
  9. zooba72

    zooba72 Member

    Thanks again for the replies. Based upon the age of the house and the type of tiles that were on the slab, there is a very high probability that the mastic/cutback contains asbestos. This is why I would rather not grind. My plan B is to use simply tile the floor - I managed to secure porcelain to the slab a few years back to support a wood stove, and that's solid.

    The product that I was referring to is Seams Perfect Primer: PerfectPrimer Solutions Surface Prep Waterproof, Concrete, Wood

    There are not a lot of people who are familiar with it, I'm not sure why - but I have spoken to a few people who have said it should work for my situation. Has anyone had experience with it ? Thanks again.
     
  10. zooba72

    zooba72 Member

  11. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I would still scrape it before the primer. Just my 2 cents.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Interesting product, I haven’t seen any flooring product manufacturers recommend it.
     
  13. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I haven't tried it yet or been to a class that tells what it works on. Vortex has a super sealer that we use as a primer for such times, I suppose its about like it.
     
  14. zooba72

    zooba72 Member

    I can't provide any first hand experience, but I was a member of the decorative concrete forums and several contractors had used the product and said it does what it's designed to do - that said, they all prefer to grind when it's possible and I still haven't learned what the drawbacks are to using it. I'm actively researching this and as I learn more I'll post it.
     
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