newly installed LVT squares squeak

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by DAB, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    Yay!!!

    Go get em tiger :)
     
  2. DAB

    DAB Member

    Just wanted to let you how things turned out.
    -Had a 3rd party inspector out that we hired thanks to your input. He found the adhesive as applied incorrectly due to using the wrong trowel size and carpet seams were not sealed as per industry and Shaw guidelines as well as a few other issues. We realized at this point we have no warranty through Shaw due to incorrect installation.
    -We disputed the entire bill which we have placed on our Visa card through their dispute resolution process. This resulted in those charges being pulled back from his account and placed back in our account pending his reply and Visa's findings. Visa warned us that this as a battle of documentation. We prepared over forty pages on documentation including pictures, timelines, copies of the inspectors reports, texts stating the store manager knew there was problems and recommended removal, copies of Shaw installation guidelines and industry standards for installation, and a copy of Shaw's warranties.
    -The owners of the flooring store never disputed our claim so after 90 days the dispute was considered closed and the money remained in our hands.
    -We had new flooring installed last week by a different local flooring store and what a difference. We noted during the tear up process of the LVT there were many squares that separated from the Solitaire underlayment just by pulling up the the squares. They did not level the flooring under the LVT. They failed to tape the seams of the carpet One area of carpet that was fraying was due to the patching a 8 in by 2 foot square on carpet in where they miscut. I quizzed the new installers their thoughts on the installation in case this mess isn't done yet- "very sloppy job."
    -Putting down a thicker subfloor helped fix the door frames being all cut to different heights. We still have some splintering to deal with. We also have the cost of the inspection out of pocket. We are debating on letting sleeping dogs lie at this point. Would love to send a copy of my 45 pages to whoever is over our area Shaw rep and whoever is in charge of sales. Would also love to have the flooring store pay for the inspection. However, I never thought we would get the entire purchase price back and hate to be greedy. Not sure what we would gain besides the personal satisfaction of being a thorn in his side.
    -We will never purchase Shaw products again. Was truly disappointed that Shaw didn't help our case along here. They were too busy protecting "their best customer" in the area.
    -And we absolutely love our new flooring!!

    So thank you for all your patience answering all of my questions and wise guidance on how to navigate this mess. Thanks to the pro on here who pointed me towards the flooring inspector.
     
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I am really glad you got some resolution. Nice to see when things work out how they are supposed to and bad installations are thrown to the dogs. Personally I would go after every penny... but that's because I am a vindictive arsehole :) plus it involves court and a lot of ugly mess....

    Good on you for winning!!
     
  4. DAB

    DAB Member

    I guess this isn't finished yet. We received a letter today from an attorney stating the flooring store is going to begin debt collection proceedings against us. This isn't a total surprise since we suspected there was a decent chance he was playing opossum. We have lots of documentation already ready to go from the credit card dispute (inspection reports, industry guidelines, Shaw standards, photos, timeline, etc) and will be contacting an attorney. Any suggestions at this point? What should I be getting around?
     
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  5. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    unfortunately this is going to end up in court... unless perhaps you have your lawyer (or yourself) deliver all the information you have gathered about this defective install, records of your attempts to have it corrected and your resolution process with said store that eventually just broke down and went no where.

    The "evidence" of the crime as it were is gone bit it isn't like you don't have oodles of supporting documentation and it isn't like a small claims judge is gonna come to your house. If you cannot scare this guy off with your determination, let the courts do it for you. I for one am rooting for ya
     
  6. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Then you can get your out of pocket costs back.
     
  7. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    I have done expert witness testimony in the past. Four times successfully in favor of my clients. It sounds like you have all of the necessary documentation and the courts love that.
    I was taught to dress professionally in court (suit and tie). My first time doing expert testimony I was quite nervous. This retailer had over 50 years in business. When we all showed up in court, he dressed in khaki pants and a Hawaiian shirt. Wasn't so nervous at that point. It didn't go over well with the judge.
     
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  8. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I would seak additional damages, days off work, documentation charges,research, like a dam tax deduction. Maybe find additional customers of theirs who are also dissatisfied and have them write statements to present in court.
     
  9. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    You can ask for all that stuff but it's not always awarded
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    How did that being an expert witness pay you or do you have a rate for that? We talked about it in inspector class.
     
  11. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    Back then $125 an hour. Most were just an hour or two but had a minimum of two hours. Had a commercial job that kept me in the court room for 8 hours. Didnt like doing it. To stressful.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. DAB

    DAB Member

    Depending on the advice of our attorney, I will ask for everything from:
    1) cost of the new flooring as well as installation costs and removal of old product
    2) cost of the inspection of the LVT and the inspection of the carpet
    3) cost a subfloor which was required to raise the floor to correct for the unevenly cut door frames
    4) cost for the repair of the chip in the marble front fireplace or replacement cost of the marble if we are unable to find a suitable match
    5) cost of replacement of the door jambs which were splintered due the installation process and repair of the potential damage to the dry wall and paint due to the replacement process.
    6) our legal and court fees
    7) charges for lost wages, documentation fees, and research time
    8) cost for (store owner name here) being an asshole

    I know it is all a stretch, especially the last one, but by George, if the attorney says go for it, I will.
     
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    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. DAB

    DAB Member

    As I am reworking the documentation, I noticed the tape that looks like duct tape. Is this standard practice?

    upload_2018-5-13_18-7-58.png upload_2018-5-13_18-11-13.png
     
  14. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I am confused...
    is there pad duct taped to your vinyl and then nothing??
     
  15. DAB

    DAB Member

    The "old" vinyl is the large tan/white speckled squares and the new LVT is the darker. The white, I believe, is the solitaire underlayment with the adhesive on it and the yellow is the adhesive. I lifted the square off (you can see the black back of the LVT square to the right). I suspect the duct tape was used to hold the Solitaire together? There were several areas (and typically the noisy ones) where I could lift the tile off the underlayment without any "peeling" required. Am I close? And is this normal protocol?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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