Need opinions please

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by FirstGT, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. FirstGT

    FirstGT Member

    Hello, new here. I've read a lot of quality information on these boards and I've narrowed down my search to these two very similar carpets. Both are BCF Nylon w/ R2X treatment and Softbac.

    1- .65" pile height, 2969 density, 54 oz face weight, 6.1 twist
    2- .75" pile height, 3323 density, 68 oz face weight , 6.1 twist

    This is for a 3-bedroom home, 2 adults, no kids (yet) and no pets. It's about a $1,000 difference between the two.

    We like the plusher feel of #2. One of my concerns is matting, and that the pile height is going to be too tall for the stairs and hallways. Will the density offset that?

    Also, I see mixed reactions with Prime Polyurethane padding. The one we are looking at as a lifetime warranty to retain 90% of its original thickness. They are premium priced to the rubber rebound and memory foam pads. Are they really that bad?
     
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I like your questions but out of the loop with the carpet and it's wear factor, along with the carpet cushion issue. As installers, it was the only thing that really interested me doing the removals, how well it wore and how well it was installed.

    I'd go less height, and rebound urethane, I try to keep it less expensive for replaceable material that life is @ 8-10 yrs.
     
  3. FirstGT

    FirstGT Member

    Thanks for the info! I wasn't sure if .10" in height was really going to make a difference or not in wear. Seems so minimal. So you think either way the carpet had a lifespan of only 8-10 years?

    Would it make sense to do #1 on stairs and hallways, while using #2 in bedrooms/family/dining room?
     
  4. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'd do #2 in the main area and #1 in the Br's. But one thing I wouldn't do is do the same color in both areas as you will have dye lot differences. Sometimes they could be very close and others way off.
    And go with a good 7/16" rebond, 8lb.
    8-10 years you will be so tired of that carpet you will want a change.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  5. FloorDoc

    FloorDoc Resting In Peace Charter Member

    I'd take the lower weight carpet and all underlayments come with lifetime warranties.
    Carpet: Say you have a Chow or a chiuahh. You send em out in the field all day to play, guess which one comes home with more grit. Less is more in this case, it's the ability to be able to clean the carpet, and the thicker it is the deeper that fine dirt goes to.
    Besides, how many people (after they buy), ever get down on their knees and feel how much it weighs?
    Buy it for the twist, not the weight.
     
  6. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member




    In this case the twist is the same.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  7. FirstGT

    FirstGT Member

    Interesting, why the taller carpet in the high traffic areas?

    Thanks for the heads up on color!

    I've noticed more recommendations for 7/16" pad over 1/2", why is that?

    I like the perspective, thanks!
     
  8. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Because it's the standard. Manufacturers and the CRI (Carpet & Rug Institute) state maximum thickness for cushion should be 7/16 or .45 inches. Half-inch is too thick, but it is still made and sold by many retailers and they likely make more profit on the half-inch than the 7/16".

    Selecting the Right Cushion - The Carpet and Rug Institute, Inc. | Dalton, GA 30722
     
  9. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member


    The taller carpet in higher traffic areas is where you will spend most of your time. You want the cush there. Br's only get traffic a couple times a day. Lr's, family rooms you will most likely lay on the floor if you are a younger couple. Old people like me stay in chairs. [To hard to get up off the floor]
    1/2" pad makes it a !/4" higher than the tacking board and will show a dip down to hook unto it. Plus making it a greater risk for a restretch. CRI saying no greater than 7/16 and then saying but 1/2" can be used is double talk to me. Somebody from the pad industry slipped in some money there. Kind lof like saying you drive a Ford but Chevy parts will work.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  10. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Can you link to where it says half-inch pad can be used? The link I gave had no mention of 1/2" cushion. It said 7/16" was the maximum, quarter-inch the minimum. It suggested the thicker end could be used in "bedrooms, dens, lounge areas and other rooms with light or moderate traffic" and the thinner end used in "living rooms, family rooms, hallways, stairs and other heavy traffic areas."
     
  11. FirstGT

    FirstGT Member

    So you don't think the extra 0.10" pile height of #2 will be more susceptible to matting? Or just negligible?

    I asked Shaw Flooring about their carpet warranty and using 1/2" padding. This was their response...

    "Thank you for your inquiry. 1/2" pad is the maximum acceptable according to the Carpet and Rug Institute. It would not compromise the warranties offered."
     
  12. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Maybe ask them why CRI-105 STANDARD For INSTALLATION of RESIDENTIAL CARPET ©2016 by The Carpet and Rug Institute, Inc., states this (below) and why it differs from their information about CRI.:

    Download CRI-105 Standard for Installation of Residential Carpet here:pdf:
     
  13. FirstGT

    FirstGT Member

    I copied and pasted your post to them, they back tracked, and responded with this:

    "The 1/2" is a Shaw recommendation. Our only requirement is that it is FHA approved. Below is our pad recommendations:

    We recommend a padding that is FHA approved While the consumer should work with their retailer to choose a pad that is best for their needs, firmer, thinner pads generally perform better. Choosing a pad that is ½” thick or less and has a minimum density of 6 lbs is recommended for optimum performance."
     
  14. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Don't the manufacturers recommendations trump over the CRI install guidelines? I think that someone is just calling 7/16" pad 1/2" pad.
     
  15. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Manufacturers rule. They call the shots over everyone else.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  16. FirstGT

    FirstGT Member

    At what point does the pad/carpet become too thick, that the bedroom doors probably need to be milled? I.e. 0.75" pile/ 0.5" pad
     
  17. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I would definitely not go beyond 1/2". There is thicker. Cutting the doors is a common issue with carpet. You want thicker carpet you pay the price. Most time if the doors are 1 1/4" off the floor will cover it. That is the bare floor.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  18. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    I'm not the most knowledgeable carpet guy here by a long shot. I've been a hard surface guy most of my career, but I've learned some things from guys who are very knowledgeable so correct me if I'm wrong on this please.

    I've always been taught that much beyond 3/8" thickness (pad) you start getting into problems holding stretch because the pad wants to lift the carpet off the pins if the pad is too dense and too tall.

    Also, I've also been taught that a higher density pad is going to outperform a thicker pad. For example an 8# 1/4" rebond bad is going to blow a 3# 1/2" prime pad away on performance.

    So, I guess what I'm saying is couldn't FirstGT's issue be solved by going to say a 3/8" 10# vs. a 1/2" lower density product?

    Also, I agree with Jim that I'm not sure why the world CRI's technical services people are contradicting their own standard. Seems a bit odd to me.
     
  19. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I think Jim Walker (CFI founder) started the 7/16" max, for the tackstrip and for the carpet backing so it reduces the movement and wrinkling.
     
  20. FirstGT

    FirstGT Member

    When the warranty says it covers "wall to wall installations" with no specific mention of stairs anywhere in it. Am I to assume that it includes stairs, since it doesn't specifically exclude it?
     
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