Mannington LVT Adura

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Diann, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Yeah I wondered why they didn't slip in square notch on the specs. And also varies on different substrates on other products.
  2. Good point RFI!

    We recommend a sq. notch for this. Normally I wouldn't recommend that large of a notch for LVT. You can get away with that large of a notch with this product because it's thicker than most LVT's (4mm vs. 2mm). Because it's thicker it won't allow the adhesive to displace as easily as a thinner product or transfer trowel ridges.

    The practice of back rolling glue after applying it with the proper notched trowel with a short nap (3/8") roller is a really good one. It can be done with any of Mannington's products. We strongly encourage it on the commercial side. It helps trowel ridges from transferring through the product. It also helps minimize trapping air and getting bubbles when done with sheet vinyl's. In particular vinyl backed products.

    I've never been a fan of just rolling glue on because it's very difficult to gauge how much you're getting down. I believe it should be troweled first then rolled. The trowel is then your gauge or meter for making sure you have the correct amount of glue.

    The only time it would really concern me to back roll is if the back of the product was heavily textured like an action backed carpet, or a crumb rubber product where you need to make sure your getting transfer up into the back of the material to provide a proper mechanical bond.
  3. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    How come you did not catch the missing notch spec and say something? Hmmmm :p
  4. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Much as I try, I cannot and will not do everything for YOU. You need to take some responsibility for your life, at least occasionally.

  5. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    So to interpret the above statement for everyone. Pops missed it and the kid caught it :cool:
  6. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    If it makes ya feel good!!!:p
  7. Diann

    Diann Member

    Hi. It's me again.

    Thank you all so much for the wisdom you've shared with me. I need to make a decision now and would like to ask you once more to share a minute of your time with me.

    As a summary, since this thread is getting pretty long:

    We ordered flooring for our entire house 1,400 sq feet from a small company. We ordered Mannington Adura Planks for the first floor (kitchen, dining, great room, and bathroom); carpet for up the stairs and into three bedrooms, and Mannington Calypso tile for the two bathrooms upstairs.

    We had it set up to have the flooring company install the downstairs (planks) on the 20th and 21st (Friday and Saturday) of December. They came on Friday and said they thought it'd be a one-day job. We had planned on having them do one half of the job one day so we could move the appliances/furniture to the other half of the house that night but they said they'd take care of moving things for us.

    The owner of the store left and the guys started working. When I walked into the room I noticed that there was a large bump where the carpet and tile used to meet. The guys said, that was just the way it was. I wasn't happy about it at all and soon my husband called the owner of the store and had him come. The sales manager (guy who sold us the products) and the owner came and agreed that the transition was horrible and they tore it out and feathered it some more. There were two other places where the previous floors had changed (carpet to tile) and they worked on them too to make them smoother.

    That was the end of that day. It was late in the day and the material they put down to smooth the transition out needed to dry. They guys wanted to come back on Monday but the orignal plan was for two a two day project of Friday and Saturday and we weren't going to be here on Monday so they agreed to come back on Saturday.

    Friday night, the floor that had been put down looked good. I was happy. They came back on Saturday morning about 9:00 and worked on the transitions a little more and then started laying the floor. It took them until about 3:00 to finish. They worked much faster and didn't take as much time to clean up but I tried to be understanding. We had a big snow storm coming and it was the last weekend before Christmas. Before the guys left I commented about a couple of planks that were not adhered. I was told to put something heavy on them and they'd stick.

    That night, I started noticing a lot of the tiles hadn't stuck and I found your fab forum.

    The flooring guys had left 1 full container of VCT adhesive and one that was almost gone. You let me know that was not the right stuff. I called the VCT manufacturer and they agreed and said it was not meant to be used on LVT.

    Owner came last Monday and said he was sure they had used Shaw glue on the floor and he'd ask about why VCT glue was left at our house. He has since said his crew said they used VCT glue after they ran out of the Shaw glue.

    While it is not his first choice he has offered to tear the whole floor out and reinstall it with Mannington adhesive (what we paid for); or his first choice is to tear out the floor where the VCT adhesive was used and apply it again using different glue (don't know what glue, probably Shaw).

    He's said he can get written warranty from Shaw that their glue would work with the Mannington.

    SO now I wonder...what should I do? How would you feel about ripping out the entire floor just because your receipt said Mannington adhesive and another type of adhesive was used. Will tearing out the floor make it hard to get it smooth to reapply the floor? What about the rest of the job? The carpet and tile in the upstairs bathrooms? Will they do a better job or will they try to skimp even more because they've lost so much on the job? Or maybe they'll not even want to finish the job?

    Neither me nor my husband want to be jerks. We don't want to have our floor torn up and done again. We just want it to be right. I don't know how long we'll be living in this house. This entire nightmare started out by "fixing up the house" to sell in the future but yet us enjoy it until we decided to move.

    Your help and input have been so valuable. I've learned so much about flooring and glue from you guys. Thank you!
  8. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I've not commented in this thread nor have I ever installed any of your product. But I have one question. DID YOU GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR??
    The old man in my sign off is just that. I'm old with 48 years experience.


  9. mcbrides

    mcbrides Canadian Installers Senior Member

    Hey Diann,

    About 10 or so years ago, we were contracted to install a vinyl tile product called Nafco. These were the original luxury vinyl tiles available on the market. This was pretty much an entire main floor including kitchen, hallways, bathrooms and a laundry room. Included in our labour was to remove and replace all 1/4 round, fully skimcoat the existing vinyl floor, and remove and replace all appliances and bathroom fixtures.

    During the course of the install, we noticed some of the tiles had small depressions in them that were irregular. The homeowner noticed them too, and we had them put post-it-notes on the tiles with the divots in them. The manufacturer's rep came out to inspect the product, and we expected that he would instruct us to simply replace the flawed tiles, but no, he said all the product was flawed and that it would be replaced. In this particular case, the manufacturer covered the cost of our labour to do it the second time.

    When the product arrived at the retailer, we asked that the entire lot be inspected before we booked the installation date. Once we had been advised that this had been done, we booked the install. When we picked up the product from the store, it was evident that they had simply opened one end of each of the cases and then taped them closed. So now we are loading with our fingers crossed.

    We absolutely hate to have to do anything twice. This only ever happens to us with flawed product.

    So we skimmed the existing tiles and did it all again. At the outset, it became evident that there were lines in all of the tiles; it seems from the rollers used in the mechanized manufacturing process.

    Again, the manufacturer's rep said another replacement.

    When confronted by the retailer and the customer in the store about booking a third install, we blatantly refused. We have not handled that product since.

    I guess what I am getting at is that the customer bought a product that should have served them for many years but instead had their house torn apart several times. We do not know what the final outcome was.

    Although you stated that you are fixing up your home for future sale, you still bought a specific product, along with expectation that it would be installed to manufacturer's specs. Standard installation warranties are only one year. What happens if you start to see a failure after the warranty period? You will have absolutely no recourse to have it remediated.

    When you described the transitions that were not sufficiently feathered at the time of floor prep, red flags went up for me. Any resilient installer with half a brain knows height tolerances under vinyl and more attention should have been paid to those areas before the glue was spread.

    IMHO, I would have your product ripped out, the floor skimmed again to smooth it and encapsulate that WRONG glue, then do it properly with the right adhesive.

    Some lessons in this business can be expensive, but they are nevertheless lessons. Hopefully that little shop that you bought from, and their installer, will learn something.

    In a similar fashion, we were booked last February to install 260 yards of patterned cut & loop carpet, but the booking was passed off to another crew just a few days beforehand. A couple of days into it, we get a call to drop everything and go to inspect their job. The seams were brutal. We were asked to do whatever could be done to remediate the job. The pics from that fix were posted on this site. We backcharged $2,500 to do that fix, a hit that the installers had to suck up, along with our advice that if they don't feel good about the first seam, then just STOP. That error could have cost them ten times as much if the whole thing had been replaced.

    Like I said, lessons in this business aren't cheap, but they leave a lasting impression.

    Please keep us updated.

  10. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    There's a similar issue on this forum with a failure only it's hardwood and the homeowner and retailer made some decisions. The guy posted his buckled floor on you tube for us to see the problem.
    Maybe Jim or another can direct you to his post.
    I agree total replacement if that VCT adhesive was used, and adhesive residue which is more important, some suggest skimcoating over it because the equipment necessary is not readily available.
    There are hundreds of factors to base your decision on what to do, it is the Company's fault that they put you in this situation , I sound like a lawyer or a victims advocate, again I reiterate it is 100% THEIR FAULT, I would ask the retailer, not salesperson or installer, "how do you feel putting me in this situation ?"
  11. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Not without more information than that. Title of post. Member's name who started the topic? Date range? Video title? Any one or more of those would help more.
  12. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Got it.
    Engineered Wood Over Concrete Slab Issues- Cutback and Installers
    Author - 7VII7. 5/11/13
    Under -Floor Preparation topic
    I feel it is similar due to adhesion problem, how the retailer handled it, and the homeowners decision making.
  13. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Link? Please!
  14. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

  15. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Hit and miss with me, haven't done it from within site. I still have blinders on thru tapatalk but it's easy to post.
  16. Diann

    Diann Member

    Owner of company asked if we'd consider a floating floor, same floor except different way of installing. What are the pros and cons of glue down vs. click together?
  17. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    He is looking for the cheapest way out now.
  18. Diann

    Diann Member

    So a glue down floor is better? How?
  19. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    I did not say that glue down was better. I said he is looking for the cheapest solution to get himself out of a problem.

    What they have in mind now is to install a floating floor over the existing to eliminate the cost of demo and prep.
  20. Diann

    Diann Member

    That's fine. I am trying to find out what the pros and cons are of glue vs. floating. So far, I've read that floating floors can squeak and "break" and that they have a hollow sound. Glue floors are harder to replace and are solid.


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