LVP over existing vinyl tile flooring

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Ashlea, May 27, 2016.

  1. Ashlea

    Ashlea New Member

    Please excuse any ignorance in advance - this is our first flooring project and I'm here to learn as much as I can! Relevant photos below.

    My in-laws passed away unexpectedly and we inherited their "rustic" summer cabin in the mountains. We are trying to make it habitable again, and are on a strict budget. We have two smalls kids and a dog.

    I think I have a game plan to fix the floor - it had really old disgusting carpet on it that had to go. I need to make sure I'm not overlooking anything or doing something wrong. I really appreciate any advice!

    The are two buildings - the main cabin and back cabin. The main cabin (400 sq ft) has 2 rooms with carpeting and the kitchen and bathroom have vinyl tile. The back cabin (old converted detached garage) is one room and bathroom with vinyl tile. We pulled up the carpet in the main cabin to find more vinyl tile. The tile around the perimeter of each room was broken from the carpet tack strip being nailed into it.The back cabin has area rugs on all the floor in the room. I pulled back some to reveal tile - broken in some places.

    I took samples of the broken tile from the main and back cabin. A local accredited lab got me results within an hour! The main cabin has 20% asbestos in and 10% in the mastic - the back cabin had 8% and in the tile and none detected in backing or adhesive.

    With full protective gear, my husband removed all the broken tile from the main cabin (but ONLY the broken tile). I am including pictures to see the condition of the tile and subfloor. This is what we plan to do from here, and where I'm hoping for some advice:

    • Clean all dust and debris from floor
    • Patch all cracks in concrete following these steps: Concrete Patch - Repairing Cracks in Concrete - Extending its Lifespan - The Concrete Network
    • Seal concrete and non-broken remaining tile with concrete sealer bought from home depot.
    • Use LevelQuik RS self-leveling compound in the spaces with the missing tiles to level it with existing tile (no primer needed due to sealer I think).
    • Install LVP or LVT on top of existing tile with leveled perimeter.

    Here are my concerns:
    • Am I missing any steps?
    • Am I approaching any of this the wrong way?
    • Do I need another subfloor or underlayment over the existing tile and under the new floor?
    • Should I glue/adhesive or do a floating floor (my worry with glue and adhesive is I do not want to disturb the asbestos tile)?
    • Is there another flooring type I should consider that has good value?
    • I hate to say it... but any decent value brands at Home Depot or Lowe's? I need something readily available and affordable, and quality isn't a top concern (see below). I'm thinking something in the 4mm-7mm range would be great but wondering if it's worth the extra money for our needs.

    Because this is a small seasonal property and we don't live there, the things that are important to us may be different than for the average homeowner. In order of importance, it would be: safety, cost, durability, low-maintenance, longevity, appearance. We plan to do more renovations in the next 5-10 years, including taking out walls to combine rooms (hoping to create a loft in the attic instead)... I don't need something that's going to last 20+ years. Since it's in the mountains, we will be hard on it, always be wearing shoes, it will get dirty, etc... but we don't live there so it's only a fraction of the time. So it needs to be durable in the short-term. We are on a strict budget, so that is a limiter.

    I really appreciate any advice, help, and recommendations!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I would not use primer or sealer or level quick, just floor patch.

    Then I would find carpet tiles, rugged, yet decor oriented. The bath and kitchen could be glued down plank.

    I am no fan of going over anything, nor finding it on a demo.

    Hard to get a feel of what the cabins are like and to narrow down a product.
     
  3. Ashlea

    Ashlea New Member

    Thank you Mike! So we can skip the LevelQuik and use something like this to fill in all the concrete cracks AND to level out the gaps left by the empty tiles? Custom Building Products SimplePrep 1 Qt. Pre-Mixed Floor Patch-FPQT - The Home Depot

    It seems like that will save us a lot of time and money if we can just use that.

    As far as carpet tiles go - I'm really hesitant to use carpet again because it's impossible to keep clean in the mountains. Basically, it's in the middle of the woods, so a ridiculous amount of dirt gets tracked inside. We knew this already but we were still surprised and disgusted by the amount of dirt underneath the carpet that we pulled up. However, I do like the idea of carpet tiles since I think it will be much less expensive and save us a lot of time on installation. I'll have to run it by hubby and see how he feels about that.

    Also, this is in Colorado (very dry) and temperatures are 60s during the day but still dip to freezing overnight. I'm assuming during all this that we should be turning the propane wall heater on to try to keep the temperature stable overnight?
     
  4. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Attached Files:

  5. Ashlea

    Ashlea New Member

    We went up today (2 hour drive one-way and I don't have Internet, phone, or telegraph while up there) and gave it a go. I got the pre-mixed floor patching and still have the bag of LevelQuik that I bought earlier. I also found some indoor/outdoor carpet tiles at Lowes that fit our needs and convinced hubby it was the way to go for what was important to us.

    We tried the floor patch and it was really difficult to level with the existing tile. I'm kinda leaning toward using the floor patch stuff to fill in the cracks and then using the self-leveling stuff to fill in the empty tile spaces and level out the tops of the cracks. Is this a bad idea?

    I'm also wondering if we should roll on a concrete sealer on top of the levelquik and existing tile before we put down the carpet tiles.

    Thanks for all your help!
     
  6. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I still wouldn't use the level quick (self leveler). Premix is not economical for the pro's. The bag patch is what we use, you would need a wide trowel14-16" a margin trowel to mix. But "key in" (press) patch to floor so it starts to stick to it, then wide trowel to flatten, smooth,gauge thickness, and move material across the bad areas.

    Sealers not designed specifically for the adhesive may be "bond breakers" usually in all adhesive directions it says "clear of all sealers,paint, wax, etc. the adhesive needs to bond to something permanent like the actual tile.

    Primers specifically made for specific adhesives are acceptable.

    I assume you think applying a concrete sealer will stop moisture from coming thru, it won't, it may reduce, but you don't want to block it now, not sure of backing of carpet tiles, minor moisture should travel through.

    The self leveler is not really a trowel able product, it doesn't do what you tell it. The primer for it should be used and allowed to dry. Not sure about going over cutback (black mastic) what it says, it should be on bag. If you're that determined to use it, I know if I want to try certain methods, no one is telling me no, I want to learn for myself, and use that info for later projects.

    Another issue is if say a slab is chalky,weak, or patch is weak, it sometimes needs primer, there are many variations/combinations to get strength into substrate, that can be way advanced.

    HD also has a feather finish product in a 10 lb box which would work well also.
     
  7. JPfloor

    JPfloor Pro Member

    I agree with Mike. Stick with the floor patch... Self leveling compound does not level itself, as the name implies.

    It may take two, three, or even four coats of patch to get those problem areas smooth with a trowel but it's still going to be easier for you than self leveler...:cool:
     
  8. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    You really don't want to glue down vinyl planks or tiles over vinyl asbestos or asphalt asbestos tile. Just because it's been secure for 50-75 years "breathing free" is no indication of how it will react to being encapsulated with an impermeable layer of plastic.

    There's a good chance that normal moisture vapor emissions will fairly repidly degrade the adhesive bond.

    Your practical options are to abate the existing asbestos flooring and adhesive or choose some kind of floating resilient or laminate flooring...........OR stick with carpet.

    Certain carpet tile systems would create the same problems as a vinyl tile or plank only you'd probably not see the issues as soon--------they're "swept under the rug" so to speak. In commercial setting I've seen millions of yards laid over resilient tile on grade concrete. It's a risk most customers and general contractors are willing to assume. I've also had to deal with many resulting problems.
     
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