LVP over 1970's ceramic tile

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by liquidskin, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. liquidskin

    liquidskin Member

    Hi all,

    My Fall DIY project is fixing up our Family Room and the floors is a major part of that.

    I picked the brain of a contractor who was remodeling our main bathroom last year and he said that I could probably put LVP over the ceramic that's in the family room. What's the criteria for being able to do this?

    The existing tile is in good shape and overall feels very sturdy, just looks dated. The YouTube vidoes I've watched of removing tile/thinset looks brutal and being a first timer, 175+ sq ft. might not be a good introduction to that skill. I'm planning on using top quality LVP and I want to be sure this job is done right and last a long time. I have a feeling the "right way" is to remove the existing ceramic, but I was wondering if leveling the existing tile may be close 2nd.

    Thank you for your help
    Ryan
     
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Good question, if it’s well intact, the tile can be used as the height a normal hardwood would be if it joins up to other higher profile floors. Thing is there shouldn’t be lippage, but relatively flat. Well cleaned can be skimmed over and bonded to with adhesive for plank.

    A removal we did few months ago I advised removal in main area of tile, but master bath was separate to go over it with the lux vinyl tile, homeowner and flooring retailer agreed.
     
  3. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    It's HAMMER TIME!

    The bestest way to determine if the existing tile is "down like iron" as my old boss like to put it is to tap around the entire area with a hammer. You can hear whether it's solid or hollow in a very obvious way. If you have an out of the way closet i would really smack it to ensure what's what. But generally the only reason not to demo the existing is if it's "down like iron" and removing the tile and thin set down to bare concrete is oustide the..............realm of fesibility/logic/your budget.

    In MY house I'm taking the tile and thin set out down to bare concrete. It's quite brutal to the tenth power if the tile installers were real pros. Sad to say the odds are well in your favor of a horrible scab installation that pops loose with a minimal amount of elbow grease.

    DUST?

    Oh yeah, that's a big F'n problem. Like wall to wall ceiling to floor-------worse than you can even imagine, and that's regardless of whether you're lucky and it pops loose or it's "down like iron".

    Think about the dust. As bad as you might imagine it to be it's much, much worse if you do not have proper containment equipment.

    That the one thing I can promise.
     
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  4. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    If you do go over the existing tile, prep is everything.

    8723D631-B6FC-4794-A43A-B746D6A7A42B.jpeg
     
  5. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    man Chris how did you get that herringbone pattern in that plank like that.... it looks amazing :)
     
  6. liquidskin

    liquidskin Member

    Some awesome feedback here, thank you all..

    Alot to think about, I think I owe it to myself to atleast try to remove a tile or 2 from the closet area before I totally kill the idea of ripping them all up.

    Assuming I'll be laying down the LVP on the tile, what would be the most recommended way for a flooring newbie to do the prep?
     
  7. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    If you could post a picture of your area it would help to start some recommendations.
     
  8. liquidskin

    liquidskin Member

    Here's some quick pics
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    I think from those photos I can confirm that what's shown might be ceramic tile..........probably.
     
  10. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Several different approaches. Rigid plank similar to laminate would work. If you want to adhere lvp, then deep clean and skimcoat with feather finish, any protruding tile above surrounding plane should be ground down with dust containment equipment.
     
  11. liquidskin

    liquidskin Member

    Thank you Mike. I'll check out the feather finishing. I've seen self leveling products as a recommendation on this, would that also work? Any advantage there?

     
  12. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Self leveling would work and your area doesn’t seem to be too big that it would overwhelm you. It would most likely cost more but if done correctly will give you excellent results.
     
  13. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I’d say not in your situation. I’d want to feel with the trowel any deviations from flat. If the self leveler became unbonded, it could get crunchy noises. There is a liquid skimcoat self leveler, but I think they would want some upgraded primer down, etc.

    By the time all that is done the patch will hold better and you’re not using much.

    A situation I will be involved in removing tile in a large area, then pouring self leveler 3/8” thick on the addition room, ecoprimgrip, then leveler the rep or retailer chooses unless I refuse specific leveler. So I will grind ceramic to get some extra grip, prime, pour, come back next day and skim grind for checking minor blemishes, and scratch for hardwood to go down. Only one or two tiles sounded hollow, will drill and fill. Otherwise I would have removed tile and thinset if I didn’t think situation would work, and we would be pouring 1” thick.
     
  14. liquidskin

    liquidskin Member

    Hi Chris. The "done correctly" part is what would worry me. My first attempt at anything like this. Would the feather finish be easier for a beginner?
     
  15. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    Troweling patch, or self leveling are both skills. Skills that take many long years to develop. To achieve the "best" result as a homeowner troweling might give a better level of success because even though it is more difficult to get a flat smooth surface it at least is manageable and can be done in smaller batches and if things start to go wrong you can stop. With leveling underlayments, if things go sideways they go sideways fast.
     
  16. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    I thought about both sides of the equation. Self leveling is a bit trickier but if you used a giant Rubbermaid trash can and mixed 3 bag batches, you would have 1/4” in 2 mixes. Maybe a third just to give you some fluff room.

    With skim coating I feel that there would still be a proud tile edge somewhere that stuck up. Either way. Guess I lost the coin toss this time around.
     
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  17. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    Negative. It sure is a coin toss. With two hard skills, which road do you send someone down eh? I just recount all the times i buggered up leveling in my infancy, those were some messy messy times. Scares me to think of folks with no experience doing it. I would agree with you that if it i was me doing it, leveler all the way!
     
  18. liquidskin

    liquidskin Member

    This is super helpful! To possibly start another debate, is the Henry feather finish as good as the Ardex product?
     
  19. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Ardex Feather Finish is king. Henery’s Is for setting fence posts
     
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