Looking at a Runner job on Monday

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by Lo Down, Oct 18, 2009.

  1. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    One thing I would love to see when photos are taken of completed jobs is the "unseen" craftsmanship that makes the end result look impossible sometimes. The woven jobs especially so. I'd love to see exactly how some of these curves angles and all them bits-N-pieces are put together so we, (me especially :D ), can learn more.
    ............ the completed projects are wonderful, almost overwhelming sometimes and they always leave me.........:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:

    I have a stair runner job to look at Monday afternoon and it has at least 3 landings as I am told. I don't know the shape of the landings.............. maybe one miter per turn, maybe two.

    Couple of questions for you guys on the options.
    Does a runner on a landing have to be turned and mitered, or can the center area between the stair runs be filled in with a straight section, then add borders on where needed?
    I did a crude drawing here with some arrows as to an option I was thinking about. Is this a "correct" method.
    I hope it's self explanatory.

    Like I said, I have not seen the job yet.

    Not being a woven guru, I don't know how many ways you can tackle a project, so any advice is appreciated.

    ..........and I'd really like you guys to post photos of the backside of them fancy pieces of fabric artwork that you do so well so that we can all see how they are done.
     

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  2. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    Here is the carpet they have chosen. I think they chose two differnt ones, light and dark blues for different stairs.

    Stanton Carpet: Product Detail
    [​IMG]

    They do make this in both a carpet and a runner style............. could a full width carpet be used to make the landing, then sew on the borders?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2009
  3. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I don't know why not as long as the full width is the same sized pattern as the runner carpet is. Dye runs may vary.

    Daris
     
  4. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Sure it can Randy, as long as you keep the pattern matched in the field. I'll try to see if I can pull some photos for ya.

    The thing to remember is, there is no 'single' way to do a set of stairs. The possibilities are endless. The only limitation that exists is the one created by our own unwillingness to think outside the box.

    Dobby
     
  5. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Randy,

    Here's a photo of a runner where we did exactly what you show in the drawing.

    Because we allowed the pattern repeat to influence the final placement of the stair portion of the runner, the upper flight did not fall exactly center of the treads. It is actually slightly closer to the rail than it the stringer side. In this case, it was a worthwhile concession to have the pattern on the landing and lower flight hit where it needed to be. Hope this helps!

    Dobby
     

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  6. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    It looks good to me with or without my glasses. It can't be to far off cause I'm not seeing it.

    Daris
     
  7. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    It's only a 5 or 10 million remodel, so they won't care. :D
    With all they spent on the home in the past 3 years, it makes me wonder why they didn't buy wool tho.......:rolleyes:

    My concern on this one is if miters would be better, at what point do you do the miter?
    On the runner you helped me with 4 or 5 years ago, the pattern on wasn't symmetrical either. You get kind of a funky shape when melding a 13 by 15 1/2" diamond.
    .............experience tells where best to position the miter, and since I have so little experience with these, that's why come here to ask "my guys" ;)

    While I'm asking, I'd love to see options on starting and ending a carpet run......... I've seen some with serged edges the the bottom.......... or these thingys.

    [​IMG]

    There are a few 84" wide stairs coming down from the main entryway, and they have figured in some little holders in the center of those stairs to stabilize the rod or maybe they are just used to couple two rods together.
    The rods are Zoroufy hollow rods in wrought iron finish.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2009
  8. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    Now ya know why I ask questions.......... you thought outside that box. Neat idea Dobby.

    I'll check back in later, but time to go out and get some grub........ I think it's past noon.
     
  9. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Randy,

    I would definitely pursue the option you show in the originating post. The pattern selected in very linear in nature and is not one that will miter well. Even if it means removing the borders and getting intricate with the field, it is worth the effort.

    As for finishing off the begin and end of the runner, I'm not certain if I understand completely, but on oversize steps at the bottom, have you considered end capping? {{as shown in the photo in the post below}} Following the flair of the step and capping the end provides a grand start and finish to an already grand staircase.

    With regards to the clips by Zoroufy, they are decoration. An embellishment. Eye candy.

    Hope this helps,

    Dobby
     
  10. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Randy,

    Here's a photo of an end cap on flared steps. Comprised of all 27" goods, there is a lot of seaming on the steps shown although no one outside the trade would know it.

    Because you ask, I am also including a few photos in fabrication. The bottom three steps were fabricated on site to ensure proper pattern match & fit. Hope this helps to inspire you because I know you can do this!

    Dobby
     

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  11. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    Lo, I'd like to see you match the pattern on the stairs better than Stanton did on their photo. Stairs don't line up with the floor.
     
  12. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    Until I meet with the retailer and homeowner at the job tomorrow, I won't know the shape of the landings.......... they may be like the one in my drawing or may be "L" shaped............ in which case they will have to be mitered. Without having an actual piece of the rug, I have a hard time visualizing the end result of a miter, but I agree, it looks like it will make a messy intersection if it must be mitered.

    On another job I did, I started at the bottom and we had the lower edge serged as a finished edge. The top step ended at the riser. Since I used tackstrip on that job, I just latexed the cut edge and tucked it in the gully........ those are what I was referring to as beginning and ending the carpet.
    I like the endcapping on that step. The ones I'm looking at will be stapled under the nose, but that still might work out fine depending on the width of the border.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
  13. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Randy,

    Just because the border is larger than the riser does not mean it can not be manipulated to fit. Since you asked for pics showing how it's done. here's one option we employed to make a 9" border fit the riser by removing the center elements of the pattern on the riser portion.

    Hope this helps!

    Dobby
     

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  14. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Here it is finished and fit. The point here is, we don't always have to work with exactly what is woven. We can tweak, alter and adjust things to make them work better. Some might be surprised to learn this, but, I often remove sections of a border or design to create a better fit. I'll see if I can find another photo or two of pattern patching...

    Dobby
     

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  15. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    Very neat idea. I like those kind of images as much or maybe even more than those of completed jobs.
     
  16. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Here's some quick pics of pattern patching. The point is, we don't always have to accept what we are given. Think about it, it's more options...

    Dobby
     

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  17. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    What determines whether you use tackstrip or staples to hold the runner in place. Last one that I did I used narrowed own commercial strip and left a small gully behind it so the rods would work. I used Karastan's rug pad on the steps.....the kind with the rubber backing and synthetic felt top side. It's close to the same thickness as the tackstrip.
     
  18. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    I wonder how that end cap idea would have worked on this lower riser.
    The shop had one end of the roll serged, so it just butted it to the floor and I stapled the bottom of the first riser. The rest of the stairs have tackstrip on the treads and riser stapled.
     

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  19. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    From a plain old lino layer those pictures look great
     
  20. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    For me personally, tackless is the preferred method of securing carpet to stairs. Preferred being the key word, because it is not the 'only' method available. It is, however, the least invasive. With this being said, anytime rods are being used it is important to ensure adequate clearance is afforded to allow the rods to fit into the brackets without forcing the rods to bow. This can be a real challenge on heavier/thicker materials.

    As for end caps; end capping runners has a way of transforming a runner into a rug. The technical term for runners without end caps is 'open ended'. The ends are, well, they're open. Capping closes the ends.

    Where end capping really looks great is on formal and/or oriental style runners. It takes an open, or unfinished, runner and transforms it into a rug that just happens to fit perfectly. It is a small detail that often goes unnoticed. Not unnoticed because no one sees it, rather, unnoticed because when it is seen, it just looks right, it looks as if it belongs, as in 'yeah, why wouldn't it be there'.

    End capping is also a great opportunity to upgrade the level of our service offerings, not to mention adding a few extra coins into the profits. It is all good!

    Dobby
     
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