Let's talk seams..

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by mamamelanie, Sep 3, 2016.

  1. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Understood, thanks Chris. So is the trade off of not using board and getting more airflow, better than using board and SDN, or not using board and using SDN? What's the facts Sir?
     
  2. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    I'm going to let others that do more carpet than I answer that. 99% of my work these days is hard surface. I personally don't use a board with it. I might consider using a board if it were a Saxony or a level loop perhaps. Something that might be more critical of ensuring that the backing is level. But the trade off is longer cooling time. I think
     
  3. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Ok.
    Someone reminded me of you the other day about inspections, When I locate the flooring guys video, I'll reference it. Dave foster interviewed the other day, I delete my emails, have to find on archived net.
     
  4. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    As you can see, there are lots of different thoughts on making of a seam.
    Sealing is a must. I teach installers how to use the seamerdown and at no time have we ever said you did not have to seal.
    Like I said before, if the seam is sealed, tight, level no overlaps or gaps, seam tape melted correctly, you will no issues with it.
    As for me or anyone else on this site to say he would not do you a good job, we can't. Daris who is on this site has been retired for some time now and only does carpet jobs now and then. But I can tell you he would be one of the first names I would give out.
    Ask him, if for some small reason you had a concern, how long will he come back and take care of it for you?
    When it comes down to it. Do you like him? Do you trust him? after talking to him do you feel he will do you a good job?
    These are things you want to ask and feel from anyone doing work for you.
     
  5. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    There was an iron that sealed the seams as it was moved down the seam. (Robert's made it) Unfortunately the port would clog and not seal afterms about 30 feet of seaming and became a regular iron from then on.
    Also I would be cautious using thermo plastic sealer on a poly carpet, like you have. Poly melt at extremely low Temps and needs to be carefully seamed.
     
  6. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I think it's Nylon Nate, and I believe that was a Taylor iron that had the fin on it. I believe my brother had one.
     
  7. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Both Taylor and Roberts came out with one, still have them laying around. hot glue is not going to hurt the backing.
    Let's help this customer by just staying to the point on what to look for and ask.
    We know the terms but they do not.
     
  8. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    I thought "Tigressa" was poly...
     
  9. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Tigressa is a shaw product. not all poly. but sealing with a glue gun will not hurt it at all. Have done so many of times
     
  10. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Is Tigressa not a pretty bare label to Carpet One? Therefore do they not have their own installers? Or do they sell cash and carry for customers to get anyone they find to install?

    Is Tigressa just the spill resistant construction?
     
  11. Completefloors

    Completefloors Pro Member

    the SDN should be ran behind the board. i usually make a helper run it a foot or two behind me. this lets him watch me put a seam together with a great view, and he is serving a purpose instead of hiding in a room scrolling his facebook feed. SDN doesnt have to be right behind the iron to cool a seam off faster. hope this helped understand. i respond to you because you are the curious one. the others do it their way. in the end its about how it looks, so if their way works too, im not saying to change up.
     
  12. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I like to know the intricasies. Thanks
     
  13. Bigsky

    Bigsky Member

    I have a few rules on my job sites..
    1. Seams get sealed unless a lower rate is negotiated. Seam sealing, sub floor sweeping and post install vacuuming always get taken off the table if price negotiations start. Warranty release form gets signed and we get to work.

    2. Tank tops are for the park

    3. Hang overs are for the weekend

    4. It costs more if the home owner helps

    5. Seam boards are for the dumpsters

    6. Kickers are for setting walls, closets and stairs

    7. I'm always too busy to install for retired installers

    Seamer down now is like the kool glide...a tool...I run mine behind my roller and works fine...I do not use a board...never have and never will...in 20 years of installation I've never had a problem with a seam..
     
  14. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    What's # 7 mean? A little clarity for me, not to be construed as you having "attitude"!
     
  15. Bigsky

    Bigsky Member

    I did a job for a 70 yr old retired installer once...he was a nice enough guy, lonely and wanting to B.S. I had three jobs to get to that day as it was my restretch and repair day but thought I could squeeze in his 13X15 bedroom. After chit chatting about the "good ole days", looking at the antique tools he had left and explaining how the kool glide works I didn't get out of there until noon..
     
  16. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member

    Alternative rule # 7 : schedule extra time for chit-chat when installing for retired installers. :) :yesss::yesss:

    My current procedures, run a shot, seal w/ latex or hot melt, old fashion iron, followed by SDN / ear protection, weighted down tool tray w/ attached board ......... no seam board.

    Great idea, w/ helper watching, so many nuances w/ making seams, hard to describe each action and with the seamer down going, it must be visual learning anyway.

    I'll switch the seam train next job, iron, board, SDN and report back,
    thanks !

    Mike
     
  17. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Got it, I been getting out fast lately, chit chat is for salespeople. I did an estimate in 5 minutes yesterday with a new remodeling contractor, he was talking to homeowner, I said hi, measured it up, told em it would take 5 hours and was on my way, emailed the quote and they want to proceed. After leaving it felt a little quick, but I got no time to play.
     
  18. Completefloors

    Completefloors Pro Member

    this is why i said i was only answering mike, because you cant teach an old dog new tricks. People dont care what the professional standards are, they like what their standards are. And they get offended and tell you about their lack of problems in X amount of years by doing it their way. The fact of the matter is, Carpet isnt the same as it was 20 years ago, and with new information and testing, it was since found, the people that get paid to find the best ways to install professionally tell us that a board should be used.

    CRI 105 excerpt...

    10.3.1 Hot Melt Seaming
    A seaming tape pre-coated with a thermoplastic adhesive is centered beneath the seam. Tape is heated by a seaming device which melts the adhesive, laminating the carpet backing to the tape. Seams should be made over a hard, flat surface (i.e. seaming board). A carpet seam roller is recommended to achieve proper penetration of adhesive into the carpet backing from the seaming tape.
     
  19. Bigsky

    Bigsky Member

    Ya I get the cri105 rules...so here is a tale of two seams...one seam was made over a board with the peak buster sealer...the other was not... both seamed pieces of carpet were pulled against with 4 wheelers...and both tore in the same spot...next to the seam tape edge...sooo........that is gud enuf 4 me
     
  20. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member

    I would like to see that on you tube :)

    Common sense tells me that seaming on a seam board will
    generate more adhesive into the backing, but ! by what percentage more ? A difficult calculation for sure, and I would like to hear this from a qualified thermoplastic engineer.

    I gave the seam board a chance, but found it very difficult to pattern match when using it. Sure, like anything else, you have a learning curve to work through, but in the end, I found no substantial advantage to continue with the burden. This does not mean its use is UN-warranted, it only means, for me ! at this time, this old dog has chosen against the new trick. I do believe old dogs have wiggle room for change, especially when confronted with enough sound information to do so.

    I value CRI 104 / 105 recommendations, because we need a reference to start with, but ! it's a booklet with no school and IMHO this creates doubt, uncertainty, and a lack of respect. ( Do as I say, but not as I do )

    Mike
     
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