layout software for pattern match question

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by NJBILLT, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. NJBILLT

    NJBILLT Member

    Do you guys use layout software to figure this out, and do you make accurate measurements to input. Because the guy that came out from Lowes rounded everything up room by room, added up the sq ft in his head and then added 15%. He says because of the pattern match he needs nearly double the sq ft. I think he doesn't know how to figure it out. Advice please.
     
  2. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    I do or shall I say did use software for many years as a measuring service. I'm also an installer and understand the real benefits, both for consumer and installers, to have a blueprint.

    A plan clearly shows seam placements and could also document special services needed like shimming to marble sills. A typical measure fee from a big box stores is probably 35.00 to 50.00 bucks, so they need to be fast and that means length x width x 15% and
    no plan.

    The installation company I contracted for was willing to pay more for the added service of a plan. Now, cuts, for each room are made at
    the shop, even splits for long hallways will create efficiency of install. Every now and then, the blueprint method would
    save hundreds if not thousands of dollars in material alone, by utilizing cut off pieces from odd shaped areas.

    Hey, it could be a fun little project for you. Do you have any
    'plan drawing' software ? or maybe an old fashion scale ruler and graph paper......... We could talk you through the details and double check the calculations, it's what we like to do around here @ TFP

    Plan the work and work the plan :yesss:

    Mike
     
  3. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Do a lay out of the areas being carpeted along with the pattern match, it don't have to be pretty just have the numbers in it and post it.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  4. NJBILLT

    NJBILLT Member

    Mike, thank you so much for the reply. I actually downloaded a trial version of MeasureSquare and accurately laid out my plan. The pattern match is 18.5L x 36W. The pattern is a wavy sand dune like pattern that runs the width of the roll. My problem is I can't figure out how to make the program honor the pattern match. But that's not such a big deal because I brought the layout into Photoshop and made to scale 18.5 x 36 rectangles and laid them 12' wide on my plan. Well guess what I came up with? 800 sq' That's 200 less than their measure guy, AND I believe if the software had laid it out it could do an even better job. The guy at Lowes told me he needs to overlap the pattern and essentially throw away a full run of the pattern. I think he's buying insurance in case he messes a seam up, he had a whole pattern run to try again. Bottom line is, I think Lowes tried to scare me with dollar signs because they don't want to work with a pattern mate. I can show you my drawings if you want. Again, I appreciate your help.
     
  5. NJBILLT

    NJBILLT Member

    Thank you to both you and Mike above who offered help. I put some thing in my dropbox for you to look at.

    Floor plan is an accurate measure of the plan made with MeasureSquare. The "runs" are 12' x 10', 12 x 15' and 12' x 18'. They are colored and overlaid the floor plan in Photoshop so I could move them around and see coverage. Again, I couldn't understand the pattern match in M2, this was the best I could do. The rectangles are 18.5 x 36, the pattern as I understand it repeats just like this. I really believe the program would have made a more efficient layout, and keep in mind I am not an installer so the seams may not be optimal, but I'm 200 sq' under the "professional" installer, and mine has 30% overage!! His was like 65%. Thanks for any input.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. NJBILLT

    NJBILLT Member

    I posted a reply with a link to some files in my dropbox but apparently the moderator has to approve the link. hang in there. :)
     
  7. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    If you had used our upload system for your pictures, you wouldn't have had to post a link, which is what triggered the post to go into the moderation queue. In addition, this topic will be here forever, helping people with similar issues for years to come. Most people don't leave their photos in dropbox or any other photo sharing site that long. Nothing worse than a topic with missing photos.

    Jim
     
  8. NJBILLT

    NJBILLT Member

    Thanks. I'll upload them here later. I didn't know I could do more than one file.
     
  9. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Ten years ago, I made the decision to allow unlimited uploads and just keep getting a bigger and better server when needed. Donations from members have helped defray the costs.
     
  10. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'm coming up with 12 x 57.75 ft.= 77 sq. yds. Let's see what others have to say. I'm at 693 sq ft.
    If that is the case reading your posts and looking at your diagram something isn't jiving.
    OK! here is what I did.
    12x27 cuts on pattern Goes all the way through the 2 rooms on end of big room.
    12x14.5 The small room on side plus the fill.
    12x 16.25 for the 12 x14.25 room
    There will be a seam and a couple cross seams in the big room and the room on end about 2 ft out from wall.
    It has to be cut in the order I have listed. Or it could possibly screw up the pattern match.


    There will probably be a piece about 6x6 left over.

    :old:

    Daris
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  11. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I didn't figure it the way Daris did because the customer, NJBILLT, has indicated he wants the pattern to run a specific way. I cut a 12x22 for rm1 & rm3, a 15.5, including the pattern match for rm1, a 13, incl. match for rm5 and a 8.5, incl. match for rm4, with the left-over from rm3 & 4 to fill rm2 and from rm1 to fill rm5.

    Those are my quick and sloppy measurements because I have no idea if the diagram includes the thickness of walls, etc. The roll is 12x59, 78.33sy (708sf). I would probably order 12x60 to be safe.

    No cross seams, one rm1 seam, one rm2 seam, one rm5 seam and 3 doorway seams.
     
  12. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Here's my advice, go to two more retailers, make them aware of pattern, have someone that has an "attention to detail" attitude and the same carpet/pad/professional install CRI standards, see the price, weigh your gut feelings, and make a decision. I know some estimators are precise, carpeting they may not be comfortable underestimating out of their wallet.
     
  13. NJBILLT

    NJBILLT Member

    Thanks. That's about 100' less than I came up eith and 200' less than my installer. I'll keep you posted.
     
  14. NJBILLT

    NJBILLT Member

    I did exactly that today. Went to a local installer that was listed on Dixie Home's website after discovering they sell the exact same carpet as Lowes with different names. He came up exactly the same I as I did with 804 sq feet. his install per foot price was higher than Lowes, but at least I can now prove to Lowes it doesn't need 65% overage. Thanks for the reply.
     
  15. NJBILLT

    NJBILLT Member

    Thanks Jim. The pattern direction was important to us as we wanted the waves to be running the length of the room. I talked to a local installer today and he was at 800' That's still 200 less than the guy Lowes sent out wanted.
     
  16. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    You laid it crosswise and I laid it out lengthwise. Came up with just about the same yardage, 2 yards difference basically. You are putting a seam across the center of the big room. Now I ask you this, what about the light source? I'm thinking there is a window in the end of room 1 which could make that seam jump up and bite you. Remember mills want the seam perpendicular to the light source.
    But we are close to one another and that is what the NJBILLT wanted.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  17. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    You're right, of course, but I went with what the customer wanted. I should have added caveats regarding the seams and light source, but I actually liked the layout for the same reason the customer did and for the fewer seams. I've run into too many situations where the light direction was different from one room to the next.

    And I was tired and not paying attention. :shifty:
     
  18. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor Senior Member

    I'd usually trust the guy who saw it in person. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but even truly good professionals can be off on their measurements and usually it's on the short side
     
  19. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    Great job, a few more plans under your belt and our consultation and
    your a measuring service !!

    He's probably talking about width-wise, because it's not uncommon for the mills, when it comes to large width repeats , to not have seam-able full width. In other-words, some retailers / installers make it a practice to figure....... one repeat less ! just in case. A seasoned
    veteran, with a history of mill and style of carpet would greatly
    insure a successful outcome with a reasonable waist factor.

    I can't blame Lowes, that pattern looks very challenging, all the more reason to hire someone who shows confidence.

    Good job TFP friends taking the time to figure cuts. I'll try to add my calculations too.

    Mike
     
  20. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Jim where do you see that?

    :old:

    Daris
     
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