Latest Aggenda Update

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by Peter Kodner, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I think it would be a good idea. I am sure he will attend anyway, but cleaning comes up pretty often as a neg. subject.
     
  2. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Where do we want to go with it? Maybe Darin should present IICRC S100 as the cleaning industry standard during the Friday lunch session?
     
  3. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Hu? Don't understand what you mean, sorry.

    T
     
  4. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Can the committee be registered as a member and allow us to post any conference info that way, i.e. the thread would show the posted by as "FITS/TFP Committee"?
     
  5. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    No, sorry. If the committee has workshop related announcements that need to be posted "officially", then the sponsors of the event should post them - that would be Tandy or myself. The thread title itself can be used to show its origins and subject matter.

    T
     
  6. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Gents, I hope I have covered the last couple of items raised. Here are the revisions.

    Can we please get a consensus so it can be posted? I'm hoping we can have this on the board on the 1st to start the year off right :D

    Again, I'm copying and pasting as well as attaching the file. If you have word, open the file and you will see the actual formatting.

    Peter

    Conference Agenda
    Friday, May 9, 2008
    8:00am to
    9:00 am Registration, Set Up & Continental Breakfast
    9:00 am to
    9:45 am Welcome, Mission Statement & Opening Comments
    Tandy Reeves, President FITS
    Individual Introductions by Attendees (Stand up, name and other short bio info)
    9:45 am to
    10:00 am Break
    10:00 am to 12:00 pm Group Discussion: “The Roles of the Inspector and the Installer”
    Moderator: Roland Thompson & Tandy Reeves
    12:00 pm to
    1:30 pm Lunch
    12:00 pm to 12:30 pm: “Standards for the Floor Covering Industry”
    Moderators: Bud Cline, Darin Lopez & Peter Kodner
    12:30 pm to 1:15 pm Group Discussion Deron has to be asked to do this.
    1:15 pm to
    1:30 pm Break
    1:30 pm to
    3:00 pm Group Discussion: “Industry Myths: What are they and How to Address Them”
    Moderator: Selva Lee Tucker
    3:00 pm to
    3:15 pm Break


    3:15 pm to
    4:45 Group Discussion: Core Values: “What they are for Installers and Inspectors”
    Moderator: Peter Kodner

    4:45 PM to
    5:00 PM Break

    5:00 PM to
    6:30 PM Group Discussion: “The Paper Work Trail: What should be noted in Case there are problems” (can cover waivers, data collection for inspectors, speaking out when wrong products are specified, etc.)
    Moderator: Perry Wright (presuming he is attending!)

    6:30 PM to
    8 PM Dinner (circumstance permitting) & Networking
    Saturday, May 10, 2008
    8:00 AM to
    8:30 AM Coffee & Networking
    8:30 AM to
    10:00 AM Group Discussion: “What is Available to Educate Installers and Inspectors?”
    Moderator: Mike Currin & (We need an installer who takes numerous continuing programs/courses- maybe Chris Mha, Jerry Thomas, Nick Arrera or Gerald Hart?) Who should be here???? We need to ask if any of these men will do this.
    10:00 AM to
    10:15 AM Break
    10:15 AM to
    11:30 AM Group Discussion: “Changing the Attitudes of Manufacturers and Retailers towards Inspectors and Installers”
    Moderator: Dan Schultz (a manufacturer and inspector), Bill Watson Are these choices good? We need to ask if these gents if they will accept the roles.
    11:30 AM to
    12:00 PM Panel Group: Question & Answer
    Moderators: Tandy Reeves, Daris Mulkin, Don Monfils, Mike Currin, Danny Ferguson, Bud Cline, Deron Lopez, Perry Wright,, Dan Schultz, Bill Watson, Peter Kodner
    Do we really want all the moderators on the panel? This would be almost half the entire group based on the registrations so far!

    12:00 PM to
    1:00 PM Lunch
    12:30 pm to 1:00 “Site Conditions: Who’s Responsibility Are They?”
    Speaker: Craig DeWitt
    1:00 PM to
    2:00 PM Panel Group, Q&A (continuation)

    2:00 PM to
    2:15 PM Break

    2:15 PM to
    3:30 PM Conference Review Session: What was done well? What wasn’t? How often should these be held? Were the topics beneficial? What changes would you like to see done at the next Conference?
    Moderator: Tandy Reeves
    3:30 PM to
    4:00 PM Closing remarks
    Tandy Reeves
    Break Down
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Since no one has responded to the most recent agenda, I have a question? How do you anticipate the questions generated by "The Roles of the Inspector and the Installer", "Industry Myths" with only one moderator, "Core Values" with only one moderator, as well as the others. Will the moderator(s) have questions to present to the floor or are they to wait on the floor to respond. Also, how can "Standards for the floor covering industry" be properly covered in such a short time? I still think we should stick to problems that are common between installers, inspectors, dealers, and mfg. Come on guys Peter needs all of out input.
     
  8. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Maybe we should call the moderators facilitators instead. I had thought we were all in agreement the mods won't be running the show- just keeping it on task. I also, maybe erroneously, thought we would have seed questions in the hands of the mods as well as scattered around the floor.

    If we post the agenda as is with a request for comments, i.e. a draft, would this help or hinder us going forward? I have my own opinion but let's all have some input here.

    With less than 30 registered at this point, I see a few options:
    1. Ask all committed people to step up and help with a session, assuming we want more than one mod/facilitator per session
    2. Get some feedback and make some changes
    3. Add more mods after the agenda is posted and we get more attendees
    4. Post the agenda and let it stand on it own merits to entice more attendees.

    I'm am getting nervous we are not moving forward at this point and have a decided need to get something in front of the potential audience and allow for some marketing now. I am still hopeful we can get something posted in the next day or two and build some momentum.

    I know the latest agenda has only been up 48 hours and I'm hoping the lack of input is due to the holidays... let's get this hashed out ASAP!
     
  9. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Re: Latest Agenda Update

    These original topic ideas and discussions seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle:
    • Product Suitability & Performance Expectations (Danny Ferguson)
    • Code of Ethics (Peter Kodner)
    • Limits of Communication between Consumer/Installer, Consumer/Inspector and Installer/Inspector (Chris Mha)
    • Potential Problem Identification (beyond the obvious) (cproader)
    • Education of the Professional (Chris Mha)
    • Basic installation skills 101 for inspectors with no installation background (Daniel Wachtel)
    • What can an installer expect during the inspection of an installation? (Daniel Wachtel)
    • How to make the installation and inspection sectors work better together (Daniel Wachtel)
    • How unusual installations are inspected (Daniel Wachtel)
    • Advantages and Disadvantages of Installer/Inspector Cooperation (Peter Kodnar)
    • What should and what shouldn't be in an inspection report (Peter Kodner)
    • Legal Rights of the Parties Involved (selvalee)
    • Documentation for the Installer and Inspector (selvalee)
    • Effective Waivers and Contracts (Floorguy)
    • Standard Profile for Inspections (rgfloor)
    • substrates
    • carpet
    • ceramics
    • wood
    • laminates
    • resilient
    • commercial
    • Installer responsibility of product sold.
    • Is installing a mis-specified product an installation related problem?
    • Should inspectors attend installation classes?
    • Should installers phone numbers and name be included with all inspection requests and are they employees or subcontractors?
    As was originally discussed (and I thought agreed upon by all), all topics/discussions should be lead by 2 people, an installer and an inspector. My feeling is, even if the inspector is also an installer, or vis-versa, we still need a second banana - it would appear to be a conflict of interest otherwise.

    I like the first presentation in the list, “The Roles of the Inspector and the Installer” by Roland Thompson & Tandy Reeves.

    The "Standards" topic is too broad and could end up taking a week, with no consensus.

    "Industry Myths" wouldn't be my choice for a presentation, especially by someone with strong bias'. Myths can be a part of any topic or discussion when they pertain to the particular subject matter.

    "Core Values" is too close to a political storm for me. It's a broad and volatile subject and there are plenty of topics waiting in line to take its place. I know that core values are important, but if I don't have them already, I wouldn't be involved in this to begin with.

    "The Paperwork Trail" could be a very interesting presentation. I think it was derived from these:
    • What should and what shouldn't be in an inspection report
    • Legal Rights of the Parties Involved
    • Documentation for the Installer and Inspector
    • Effective Waivers and Contracts
    I think it could be boiled down to "Effective Documentation & Record Keeping"

    "What is Available to Educate Installers and Inspectors?" is important information that I think is best presented by providing everyone with as many training schedules and agendas of the various organizations as we can get our hands on. I don't think it needs to be a presentation.

    "Changing the Attitudes of Manufacturers and Retailers Toward Inspectors and Installers" is another one of those hotbed issues we could discuss for days. I wish someone would start a topic like that here on the forums. But it feels like it's too far off from the purpose of this workshop - improving the cooperation and relationship between installer and inspector. We can work on retailers and manufacturers at another symposium.

    "Site Conditions: Who’s Responsibility Are They?" seems like it could be a very interesting presentation, but it's more of an installer issue than an installer/inspector issue. I know there are points to be made that concern both segments, but this is another of those discussions that should be like a Installer-General Contractor or Inspector-GC-End User workshop. I could be wrong.

    And finally, I want to again urge you to reconsider using the all too little time this workshop has to discuss how we liked the workshop. Let's get these people to discuss this very important issue here on the forum, in a blog or via email, telephone or smoke signals. I have spent my life seeking approval, so I understand the desire to get some feel good going on, but let's not let it get in the way of education. Those of us who want to do more symposiums and provide more training to the industry will know soon enough how it all went down because they will tell us whether we want them to or not.

    Tomorrow is the first day of 2008. Let's put our heads together and put some basic ideas for topics to the members who are interested in following this discussion. That topic has almost 4,000 views and getting close to 300 replies. Our members ARE interested and they DO want to participate. Let's give them more to discuss, maybe have a word to say on a poll so that we know what will be the areas we need to concentrate on. We don't need "the agenda" just yet. We still need to decide what we will be presenting and who will be the presenters. We have the time.

    Again, just my opinions getting tossed out there. I'm either full of good ideas, or full of shit. I know that. :)

    T
     
  10. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    I can't believe it, a response :eek::D

    All valid points Jim.

    I felt the vast majority of these are "educational" topics not lendignt themselves well to a group discussion. To wit:
    This one I intended to be an informational topic. There are standards for each discipline and not all are aware of them. CRI, NOFMA and ANSI/TCA. There is really no debate these are what inspectors use and hold installers accountable to. The intent of this was really to get everyone literally on the same page (s). I came to believe the importance of this one when having a telecon wiht Nick and he off hand said he had never seen a copy of CRI 104 or 105. I wonder how many others would make this statement?

    I candidly think your bias with Selva is showing here. The man does have some "brand" recognition due to his article and this is a topic he can handle very well. Again, please keep in mind the mods are there to facilitate discussion, not direct the conversation itself.

    I don't see how we can not discuss ethics if we are building bridges. This is probably the largest gap between our disciplines. If we can reach a consensus on what constitutes an ethical practitioner, it is a great starting point for us all to work togehter. Granted, we do not at this juncture, have any means of policing adherence, but I think it critical to get it on the table and set a higher bar for this on both sides.

    We are on the same plane on this one. Maybe title it: "The paperwork trail: Documentation and record keeping".

    As an inspector, I stress some responsibility for this to every installer I meet. Again this is an area where in my end, I hold the installer accountable for knowing what they should be and making the effort to see if they are. Another topic where I constantly see a lot of disagreement, confusion and lack of awareness. This one also seemed a good one for the lunch time period where folks would probably listen more than discuss. I could be wrong here and it may spark a lot of discussion.

    This isn't about "feel good" at all. It is even more important to find out what didn't work, and to get this while the session is still on everyone's mind. The candor we will get at this session cannot be acquired by any other means. After the fact, getting busy at work, apathy and a whole host of other human traits will lessen the quality of any feedback information we can manage to get. I have been involved in an untold number of programs like this, (i.e. brainstorming, team building, planning sessions) with all levels of structure, and have always gotten the most important information on the program from the wrap up session. This is Business Management 101 stuff we are arguing.

    Can't buy this right now. The posts are going all over the place, nothing really new has been added for quite a while, six people have stepped up for the committee with 3 of us doing most of the talking, and we still have less than 30 signed up. The may be interested but they are most assuredly waiting to be told what is going to happen. We haven't even gotten close to the 80-20 rule (that states 20% of the people do 80% of the work)!

    After much thought, I do not favor a poll. I think I posted my rationale previously.

    Again, I respectfully disagree. IMHO we need to get an agenda posted ASAP. If we need to change some topics or add moderators, we can plug those in as needed. At this point there has been no evidence that any actual work has been done by this committee and we need to put something out there to show efforts are being made.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  11. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Make an announcement, post an outline, see what comes of it. May be a lot more good ideas floating around out there that haven't been considered.:)
     
  12. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Wellllll, maybe some of the other committee members will chime in. :hu:








    Oh, there's one now. [​IMG]
     
  13. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    I have already exhausted my limited ability to participate thus far.:)
     
  14. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    We have run into the problem of working as a committee, someone needs to head the committee. All of the members have good ideas but they need to be distilled down to what we are going to use, then put on paper. That takes one person to do it.

    Right now we have lost momentum, and if we do not step it up we will lose the interest of everyone else. So I propose that Peter put together an agenda and let Tandy approve it. Peter, perhaps a PM or phone call to the other committee members to check and see if they have ideas would be appropriate. But we need this done pronto!

    Here are my thoughts on the list that was given.

    # Product Suitability & Performance Expectations (Danny Ferguson) NO
    # Code of Ethics (Peter Kodner) yes
    # Limits of Communication between Consumer/Installer, Consumer/Inspector and Installer/Inspector (Chris Mha) MAYBE
    # Potential Problem Identification (beyond the obvious) (cproader)NO
    # Education of the Professional (Chris Mha) NOT THIS TIME
    # Basic installation skills 101 for inspectors with no installation background (Daniel Wachtel) NO
    # What can an installer expect during the inspection of an installation? (Daniel Wachtel) YES
    # How to make the installation and inspection sectors work better together (Daniel Wachtel) YES
    # How unusual installations are inspected (Daniel Wachtel) NO
    # Advantages and Disadvantages of Installer/Inspector Cooperation (Peter Kodnar) YES
    # What should and what shouldn't be in an inspection report (Peter Kodner) YES
    # Legal Rights of the Parties Involved (selvalee) NO, we are not legal counsel
    # Documentation for the Installer and Inspector (selvalee) YES
    # Effective Waivers and Contracts (Floorguy) NO
    # Standard Profile for Inspections (rgfloor) YES
     
  15. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    I vote for you to head this committee - kick some tail.

    I will agree with everything you said yes to and vote yes to the one you voted Maybe on.

    Thank you for speaking up.

    T
     
  16. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    OK....assuming there are going to be no barroom brawls - that takes care of the first four hours.:)
     
  17. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Here are Roger's comments reformatted:

    YES
    Code of Ethics (Peter Kodner)
    What can an installer expect during the inspection of an installation? (Daniel Wachtel)
    How to make the installation and inspection sectors work better together (Daniel Wachtel)
    Advantages and Disadvantages of Installer/Inspector Cooperation (Peter Kodnar)
    What should and what shouldn't be in an inspection report (Peter Kodner)
    Documentation for the Installer and Inspector (selvalee)
    Standard Profile for Inspections (rgfloor)


    NO
    Product Suitability & Performance Expectations (Danny Ferguson)
    Potential Problem Identification (beyond the obvious) (cproader)
    Education of the Professional (Chris Mha)
    Basic installation skills 101 for inspectors with no installation background (Daniel Wachtel)
    How unusual installations are inspected (Daniel Wachtel)
    Legal Rights of the Parties Involved (selvalee)
    Effective Waivers and Contracts (Floorguy)


    MAYBE
    Limits of Communication between Consumer/Installer, Consumer/Inspector and Installer/Inspector (Chris Mha)

    I count 7 yes topics. The schedule I set up has 6 topics, 2 lunch talks, a group Q&A and the conference review session.

    Question 1: Are the time slots on the agenda good? Is this framework suitable to agreeing on topics for?

    Questions 2: Can we agree if a conference review is in or out?

    Q3: Is the panel Q&A session in or out?

    Q4: Do we want to work through lunches?

    Maybe we can settle these and go forward. I can easily do any editing we agree on but I'm getting frustrated with general comments and no concrete agreement on anything so far. We all have some strong opinions but need to reach some consensus.

    BTW: Jim, I apologize for the Business 101 comment- it was snide and you know I'm not really that way (at least not very often.. well at least trying to change lmao). What I was trying to say is valid and based on experience but I should not have taken a swipe at your opinion :eek:
     
  18. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Go back to page 1 and read the original statements that everyone accepted. I think we have totally ignored this. Also, before the committee was formed, I advised I had ask Mike Currin to handle the carpet end of the inspector moderation. I talked to mike and he agreeded to take the positioon, and I am really not prepared to push him out. I think this first workshop should deal with basic everyday problems that plauge both the installer and inspector.
     
  19. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Tandy, please be specific. What are topics are you are wanting in here?
    And again, are any of the items on the agenda I put togehter workable?

    This idea to hold this came out of another thread and we all appreciate you putting a time and place to it. I reread virtually the entire thread and don't understand what agreement you are referring to. There were several calls for ideas and everything I have put down came from those suggestions.

    If your vision is different from where we are, state what you are thinking in concrete terms so it can be worked on. Saying we are not on track without given any guidance or sharing what you think will not get us going forward.

    Additionally, Mike had been slotted as a moderator for a group as well as the panel Q&A. I'm not seeing where he has been pushed out. Conversely, we have had several conversations about not having "headliners". Are you suggesting he does more sessions than others?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2008

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