Latest Aggenda Update

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by Peter Kodner, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Just finished some work on this. I believe we should post the proposed agenda and ask for feedback versus listing topics in a poll. I think it looks more organized if done in this manner while still allowing people to have their say.

    Next conference will be easier as far as topics after we have our group discussion on the last day to determine what worked and what didn't.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Attached Files:

  2. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Quick change: Changed Friday to this:

    8:30 am to 10:00 am
    Individual Introductions by All Attendees
    Group Discussion of Aims and Goals for Conference
    Moderator: Tandy Reeves & ??? (do we need two mods for this?)

    Figured we should all stand up and identify ourselves :eek:
    Of course, everybody will already know who Selva is thanks to his "evil twin" post. lmao
  3. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Looks good. However, remember we have the hall from 8 to 8 and Sat. 8 to 4.
  4. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Oops- I'll make some changes :eek:

    Maybe we should schedule programs to end at 6:30? 7:00? Then let everyone go directly to dinner?

    Tandy, any restaurants that would let you book a block of reservations? My choice would be a moderately priced one- my budget is tight right now (hope that changes by next may :)). We could go en mass and let folks pick their own table mates when we get there.

    Or we can just go back to the motel and I'll watch everybody drink beer lmao
  5. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Here is a revision I just completed. If the idea of having Nick do a session on computers has merit, we can easily squeeze that in during some of the afternoon on Friday.

    I really need to hear a consensus from the group on the items in RED. I am hoping we can post this to the general conference thread on Wednesday :D, but need a thumbs up or down first!!!!!

    Attached Files:

  6. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I do not wish to be dense, but I thought the purpose of the workshop was for installers and inspectors to discuss areas of differences in carpet, hardsurfases, wood, and etc. I am not in favor of any speakers other than the moderators and members from the floor. Based on Silvas and Jims latest exchange, are we comfortable with turning Silva loose with any topic? Do we want this to be an educational or exchnge of ideas and understanding what the different positions of the industry is: installers, inspectors, dealers, mfgs.

    Perhaps I should not be the first to respond, but I beg of you to not let my remarks interfer with yours. Anything I say is ment to be constructive, and I think you are doing a great job Peter and keep those ideas coming.
  7. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I believe Tandy's remarks have merit and should be openly discussed.

    1. Our stated purpose is to have an exchange between the inspection community and installation community. We want to gain understanding from both sides. Adding something else I believe would be counter-productive.

    2. Selva and I have talked, he says that he is just acting up and does know how to control himself. I have my reservations but would go along with using him if he had a co-moderator.

    3. I believe we all need to speak up here and get things accomplished quickly.

    Thanks for listening!
  8. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Re: Latest Agenda Update

    I hope you don't think I am just being contrary, but some people can't open .DOC files and with the basic layout of the agenda, it might be better if it was just posted on the forum for discussion and then turned into a downloadable document in PDF format when it is time to present it to the populace.

    Your schedule runs from 7:30 am to 8:00 pm on Friday and 7:30 am to 4:00 pm on Saturday, but Tandy has stated we can't get into the hall until 8:00 am. That would be condensing the schedule a half hour both days. But we should also keep in mind that attendees may be coming some distance and might be delayed on Friday morning, especially if they worked as much as possible on Thursday. This crunches the time allotment even more - not that we should start later than 8:00, but we might take advantage of that to set things up for the symposium for a half hour. We can allow registering to continue for the first hour and start the first presentation at 9:00 am. That would be Tandy's Welcome, Opening Comments & Overview.

    I don't quite understand the hour and a half you have alloted for discussion of the Aims & Goals of the Conference. We should have a mission statement read during the opening and that IS our aims and goals. My suggestion would be to leave it at that, perhaps take a few questions about it, but to revise the agenda to reflect:

    8:00 - 9:00am Registration, Setup & Continental Breakfast Social Time

    9:00 - 9:30am Welcome, Mission Statement & Workshop Overview
    by Tandy Reeves, President FITS inc.
    9:30 - 12:00 Roles of the Installer & Inspector
    by Roland Thompson & Tandy Reeves
    There will be a 15 minute break about 10:00am​
    12:00 - 1:30pm Working Lunch (the last half hour is personal time)
    The rest of the schedule I only have a few comments:

    A discussion about industry myths can easily take 90 minutes. However, I would caution against expressing very much "anti-" sentiment, especially with the chosen moderator.

    Breaks should be only 15 minutes, or you will lose momentum. Those that absolutely have to have an extra cigarette or take a piss, will excuse themselves during the presentations anyway.

    Core values is also good for about 90 minutes. Keep in mind that none of these sessions will adhere strictly to a schedule - it's just the nature of discussion.

    Discussion of paperwork, forms, record keeping and waivers/contracts is an excellent topic, but it is my guess that Perry Wright is not qualified to lead such a discussion.

    The 90 minute Networking session at the end of the first day should be a time for Pizza and demonstrations/hands-on/slide show kind of stuff that illustrate the procedures and potential problems in installation and inspecting. Otherwise you will have attendees leaving at 6:30 to find something more interesting than "networking."

    Saturday morning should find the attendees diving right in to the first presentation at 8:00am. Any discussion of education can last longer than the currently alloted time and should include the handing out of any available applications for upcoming training offered by any organization. We should be contacting these organizations to seek their support and literature.

    Shouldn't the Q&A Panel Group include all the available moderators/presenters?

    I think the conference review should be among committee members, not attendees. Use the time for more presentations and education, not surveys and opinion. Pass out a survey at the end (or include in the welcome package) that will allow the attendee to reflect on what took place at home and send in - we can also post something like it here in the forums for those who would rather discuss their opinions online (which would be an excellent source of new committee members).

    Attendees should not be involved in determining fees or fund raising. Most people have no idea what the overhead is, in manpower and expense. Too many think training should be free or at such a low cost it could have a financial burden on the principals. The sad fact is, many flooring professionals don't run their businesses like professional businessmen or women. Some of the best installers and inspectors are always broke because they don't understand business. You shouldn't allow them to decide funding and costs for training. As a matter of fact, part of this symposium, or future ones, should discuss good business planning - accounting, insurance, payroll, taxes, understanding overhead, etc.

    Just my thoughts.

    PS: this reply was being composed while Tandy and Roger posted theirs. I agree that some adjustments should be made to keep the agenda focused on installer/inspector issues. I believe some of the agenda already does that.
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2007
  9. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Double oops! I've changed this.

    Tandy, are you referring to the lunch speakers? The thought here was to present some info while people were eating. Not a hard core educational event, just some items to be aware of.

    Roger, what specifically are you referring to?

    We should discuss this. The fact is many respect his knowledge and passion. This topic is one his is well suited for. Should there be an installation moderator as well?

    Is this a topic we should be considering? I don't we are touching on this at all at this point.

    Yes, you ar ebeing contrary but that is just your nature :p I'll copy and paste all addenda from here on out :D

    I agree.

    I plugged Perry in here as he has posted on this and always contributed when anyone else has brought it up. Other suggestions for a mod? Is this even a good topic?

    Unless we get considerable more attendees, I don't think even pizza is in the budget. This will be at the end of a pretty long day and I really didn't even think anyone would be staying around to the "bitter end". If we can set up a dinner, that would be great, but maybe we can put something to effect of conditions permitting, a dinner. Or is this maybe a voluntary "extra" we charge the $10-$20 cost for? I don't think anyone would be upset being asking to pay for their dinner.

    I disagree strongly with this. Granted we are having to take the bull by the horns to get this moving, but isn't is critical we get immediate feedback to start the planning for the next one? I believe we need a pro and con list form the get go to move forward, and with all due respect, I won't hold my breath waiting for response sheets to come back. Additionally, who is going to read them all and collate them? It would be far easier to take notes and record what we have consensus on during the meeting while it is still fresh in everyone's minds. Some off the cuff responses will prove very telling on what was good and bad when people don't have the time to reflect and try to be PC. I also think we should have welcoming packets and by all means include a questionnaire in it. The ones that do take time to fill them out and return them will provide us with some valuable thoughts too.

    I concur with this. Democracy is great, but we have elected leaders to run it. I would only caution we maintain complete transparency in anything we do.

    Great comments by all so far. Let's keep after it!
  10. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Oh jeez, BUSTED! :shifty:

    Whether it's pass the hat time or budgeted for, I think a pizza and demo session would be very productive. I know what I do in "social situations"; I leave.

    Perhaps I should have been more clear. I don't think it is a good use of the limited time to discuss how everyone liked the symposium AT the symposium. There are other avenues of communication we can use to get this valuable feedback. I just don't think it should be done at the workshop. Maybe invite anyone who wants to a casual gathering at a local restaurant after the workshop closes at 4pm Saturday.

  11. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Ok I would agree to lunch speakers while people are eating. Craig would be good , but if most are like me a discussion about computers would go streight over my head. I agree about Perry. I have ask him in times past to share some of his forms with us, and I get no response. I think CP would be a good moderator in this area. I think all discussion groups should have a installer and inspector moderator. Should any topic or fourm get out of hand, I think any member of this committee should step forward and put a stop to it. This must remain a reasonable exchange of ideas. Will there be disagreements yes, but they do not have to be disagreeable.
  12. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Here's the latest revision. As it doesn't post in format, I'm also attaching the word file for those who can view it that way :D

    Conference Agenda

    Friday, May 9, 2008
    8:00am to
    9:00 am Registration, Set Up & Continental Breakfast
    9:00 am to
    9:45 am Welcome, Mission Statement & Opening Comments, Tandy Reeves, President FITS
    Individual Introductions by Attendees
    9:45 am to
    10:00 am Break
    10:00 am to 12:00 pm Group Discussion: The Roles of the Inspector and the Installer
    Moderator: Roland Thompson & Tandy
    12:00 pm to 1:30 pm Lunch
    12:30 pm to 1:00 pm: “Standards for the Floor Covering Industry”
    Speaker: Bud Cline (don’t shoot me Bud!) & (I’d be happy to do this as well, but maybe another person so we have a larger group of people involved?)
    1:00 pm to 1:30 pm Private time: call office/get email.
    1:30 pm to
    3:00 pm Group Discussion: Industry Myths: What are they and How to Address them
    Moderator: Selva Lee Tucker
    3:00 pm to
    3:15 pm Break

    3:15 pm to
    4:45 Group Discussion: Core Values: What they are for Installers and Inspectors
    Moderator: Peter Kodner

    4:45 PM to
    5:00 PM Break

    5:00 PM to
    6:30 PM Group Discussion: “The Paper Work Trail: What should be noted in Case there are problems” (can cover waivers, data collection for inspectors, speaking out when wrong products are specified, etc.)
    Moderator: Perry Wright (presuming he is attending!)

    6:30 PM to
    8 PM Dinner (circumstance permitting & Networking
    Saturday, May 10, 2008
    8:00 AM to
    8:30 AM Coffee & Networking
    8:30 AM to
    10:00 AM Group Discussion: “What is Available to Educate Installers and Inspectors?”
    Moderator: Mike Currin & (We need an installer who takes numerous continuing programs/courses- maybe Chris Mha, Jerry Thomas, Nick Arrera or Gerald Hart?)
    10:00 AM to
    10:15 AM Break
    10:15 AM to
    11:30 AM Group Discussion: Changing the Attitudes of Manufacturers and Retailers towards Inspectors and Installers
    Moderator: Dan Schultz (a manufacturer and inspector), Bill Watson
    11:30 AM to
    12:00 PM Panel Group: Question & Answer
    Moderators: Tandy Reeves, Daris Mulkin, Don Monfils, Mike Currin, Danny Ferguson

    12:00 PM to
    1:00 PM Lunch
    12:30 pm to 1:00 “Site Conditions: Who’s Responsibility Are They?”
    Speaker: Craig DeWitt

    1:00 PM to
    2:00 PM Panel Group, Q&A (continuation)

    2:00 PM to
    2:15 PM Break

    2:15 PM to
    3:30 PM Conference Review Session: What was good? What wasn’t? How often should these be held? Were the topics beneficial? What is a reasonable fee for attending? How can we raise funds from outside sources? Should we do evening sessions too?
    Moderator: Tandy Reeves
    3:30 PM to
    4:00 PM Closing remarks and Break Down
    Tandy Reeves

    Attached Files:

  13. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Unfortunately over the years I haven't attended very many 'get-togethers' of this type so I really have no idea what to expect. But it seems to me that the topics are few and the time available is long, really long. In fact a twelve hour time commitment the first day means I'm going to miss Judge Judy AND 20/20.:D:D:D

    Actually the time for introductions in my opinion should be a less formal procedure and should be done over a longer period of time first thing during the first morning and before entering any kind of formal meeting. Seems to me most would be more comfortable with introductions and handshakes if the other hand was holding a cup of coffee in a commons area of the meeting facility.:)

    I also don't know exactly what a topic such as "Standards for the Floorcovering Industry" would contain and I'm not sure how I would fill thirty minutes on the topic. Keep in mind my knowledge is in the area of ceramic tile and I don't claim to know beans about anything else. Thirty minutes is a long time also.:)

    Just some thoughts.
  14. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member


    the intros are just going around the room, everybody standing up giving their names, where they are from, and if they are installers or inspectors. Not very formal. anybody that wants to give a bit more info would be welcomed to do so. Heck, I may spend half an hour on myself lmao

    Regarding the standards, I was thinking you would show the ANSI and TCA booklets.
    I was planning on having copies of CRI 104 and 105, NOFMA and anything I can dig up from the RFI. Depending on input form others, there may be additional documents. It would be helpful to tell everyone where they can obtain copies for their own use. Again, the lunch talks are really the only ones that would be primarily led by the mods. Folks will be eating while this go on and I imagine the Q&A will be quite a bit less.

    I would like to hear more comments on the number of topics...
  15. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I really think some time should be spent on CRI-104 & 105. When inspecting carpet inspectors rely on these as the gospel. If you read them close there is wiggle room all over the place on these. Are installers being nailed on issues that the book says "it is suggested" and other such phrases. It depends on how you interpet these statement as to how the carpet is installed. If the suggeston is not followed does that make the installation wrong? Also, look at some of the mfg. instructions, they also have wiggle room. Have recently been in a fight with Armstrong about their wiggle room.
  16. Bud Cline

    Bud Cline Tile Expert Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Same goes for the TCNA publication...........

    The publication contains only "recommendations" and the depicted techniques are considered minimums in all cases. There are always ways to wiggle.:D In a lot of cases THEREIN lies the problem while at the same time no two jobs are alike and room for alternate procedures is necessary. Catch 22.:)
  17. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Maybe this should be moved to the topic category and not be presented as a lunch talk? If so, where would it best fit in?

    Didn't mean to open a can of worms :eek:, but it is there none the less :rolleyes:
  18. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Here again, I guess I am dense, but I had never though of what Bud and I are talking about as lunch topics. I think they need full and open discussion from the moderators and the floor. There is a lot of ground to cover in these. The bottom line is how are the installers going to handle them and how do inspectors handle them. Many different catagories in these books. We must know how each group thinks in order to be fair in our assesments.
  19. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Tandy, I see your point. I was presuming there wouldn't be a lot of talk while people were eating and the time could be spent provide some raw data/information. I now see where this would generate quite a few avenues for discussion. Maybe the presenting of the documents could be done immediately at noon while people are serving themselves and go to 1:15 for discussion? Change to a 15 minute break at 1:15?

    BTW: Jim, can you create a FITS/TFP Conference Committee member? It would probably look better if any info we post is submitted by that entity.
  20. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Just spoke to Chris Mha and we discussed if we should have any topic regarding maintenance. Thought I would throw this out and get some feedback. Tandy, would this be incentive for Darin to come? He might be a great moderaotr for it if we decide to offer this.

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