Large bubble in new sheet vinyl flooring

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Sandee, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Sandee

    Sandee Member

    We had a lovely new sheet vinyl floor (with adhesive) in mom's kitchen, 2 hallways, closets and spare room installed. (I think the manufacturer is IVC.) It looks beautiful. Around 2 months later only in the area of the kitchen table and just under where mom's wheel chair sits a bubble started, where you walk on it and you feel it has give to it. There is no tripping hazard and it is not visible to the eye. It is a few feet by a few feet. The company has been great, they came out and looked at it. They feel they can fix it, so I need to go ahead and set up an appt to do that. However, since they feel it is unlikely to "spread" (I asked about that) I am just wondering if it might be a better idea to just leave it as is. Is there any down side to doing that? Is there any down side to the rolling up and fixing it? If we do go ahead and fix it how long do you suggest I keep the wheelchair (transport chair actually) off the spot. Last time we used it right away after the floor was put in.
     
  2. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I have 2 small unseen bubbles in my bathroom vinyl because I installed it on top of a layer of vinyl and I was slightly impatient... only bathroom in the house. That spot off gassed and bubbled slightly. It has been 3 years.. or 2 years... my memory is bad and it hasn't spread and I wouldn't dream of fixing it. It is a fiber floor so I feel confident it won't present a real issue over the life of the floor.

    There is it usually no harm in repairs like this however I am of the mindset that a repair can always go wrong. Lucky for you of yours does someone else is to blame :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  3. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Chances are you will eventually get more bubbles due to the rolling of the wheels and pivoting of the chair. It would happen also if it was carpet. One thing about it if you don't do something about it now it will be there until you replace the flooring. Rolling chairs of any kind is not friendly to flooring. I don't know what the tires are like on the chair but a smooth tread would be of some help. They don't grip as much on the pivot.

    :old:

    Daris
     
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  4. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    You didn't tell us what flooring it was (IVC is a manufacturer of a number of different floors), so our ability to help is limited. One of you first concerns, as well as that of the salesperson you spoke with, is the intended use of the flooring. Specifically, it must stand up to regular motorized transport chair use, which is heavier than a standard wheelchair. I would have shown you flooring that was intended for light-medium commercial use, something that can withstand rolling loads better than average.

    The motorized chair may be the cause of the damage, which means repairs to the current flooring may be ineffective long-term. But again, we have too little information. We don't know what material it is and we don't know how much weight and turning forces your mother and her chair are putting on the flooring.
     
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  5. Sandee

    Sandee Member

    Hi, to clarify the transport chair she is using is a NON motorized lightweight (28 pounds) compact chair. It is actually a lightweight version of a regular wheelchair. The sheet vinyl floor is from Carpet One Floor & Home Store (IVC is the manufacturer). It is the "Earthscapes H2O Titanium". Thanks very much for your input.
     
  6. Sandee

    Sandee Member

    FYI - Right now we use the wheelchair as mom's kitchen table chair so it is always there. (When not used the brakes are unlocked.) I am wondering when she is not eating if we should remove it from the spot to take the weight off the floor or perhaps it does not matter since the brakes are released then anyway. (Brakes are only on when she is eating.)
     
  7. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Obviously, the chair wouldn't be a problem at all if it's just resting its 28 pounds idly. The problem is when someone is in it and moving around. No one wants to embarrass your mother by revealing her weight, but even the average person would exert considerable point load on those little wheels. Here is all I can find from Carpet One regarding anything similar:

    Casters with a minimum 3/4” flat surface width or greater are recommended for all moveable furniture.​

    I'm guessing the wheels of her chair don't have a flat surface width of 3/4".

    That floor is not meant for any kind of commercial use. I understand it's in a residential setting, but the sales person needs to think about your needs at least as much as about your wants. When there are these kinds of issues involved, the average residential material may not be suitable. Most retailers and especially their marketing departments like to really play up the commercial rated durability of a flooring product, even if it's just light commercial. There's no mention of commercial quality durability for your floor. It's probably a great floor, but might prove problematic under adverse conditions, like a movable chair with small wheels and 100+ pounds of force testing its shear strength.
     
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  8. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter I Support TFP

    Im curious as to how it was glued. Pressure sensitive or i grip? 99% of problems i have seen with that product have been with the pressure sensitive installs. Earthscapes is a fairly good product however i wouldn't recommend it for regular wheelchair usage. Its just too soft (its foam) to take the abuse from pivoting wheels. Even if the total weight from the chair & the person using was 100 lbs, thats a lot of load on the 1/4x1/4" of wheel that's actually making contact with the floor.
    After the bubble gets fixed i would recommend some protection for the wheelchair area/area's. Something like the clear pads for desk chairs, without the spikes.
     
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  9. Sandee

    Sandee Member

    I cannot seem to find the MDS that was originally given to me but it may have been the "Flex-tech".

    Mom is at max 115 lbs.

    The Nova transport wheel chair we have now definitely has wheels that appear wider than 1/4" contact with floor. (I am trying to get exact specs today.) Actually the original wheelchair we had there at install time had narrower wheels than the new one. The new one we have right now (Nova 352) I believe has wider wheels.

    I like the idea of the floor mat, I was thinking about that. If I can find a good one that is not bulky on the edge to reduce tripping. Any brand name suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  10. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter I Support TFP

    No matter the wheel size, weight of chair or grandma, the floor must be protected. Big wheels, small or narrow dont matter.
    This includes moving appliances, table/chair legs, furniture.......
    Its a memory foam type floor. Once something settles in & tries to twist or move it will be a problem. I cant tell you how many next day repairs i have done from customers moving their own appliances back & tearing it. 99 % being the fridge wheel when turning it Pivot point on one wheel.

    I would check an office supplies store for a mat/mats.

    While on the earthscapes topic ill point out the #2 issue i have seen & thats asphalt walk off. If you are around new asphalt (year or two) that will absolutely destroy this product.
     
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  11. Sandee

    Sandee Member

    Mom also has a mid century splayed leg table which has been a tripping hazard for decades. Despite her being sentimental about it I am going to replace it with a straight leg table. It may have been just prior to the bubble that my husband tripped over one leg which caused the bottom of one of the legs to get dragged a little and come 1/2 way off the felt protector on bottom of the leg. This also happens to be in the general area of the bubble problem. I have since replaced the bottom of the table legs with the cup/felt style to stay on better. I'm trying to resolve these issues before the floor gets fixed soon. I have also insisted her home health aide(s) release both hand brakes on her transport chair when not in use. Do you think the splayed table legs may also be a contributing factor?
     
  12. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Doubt it as it is a fixed fixture and not slid around. Even if you moved it to clean under I don't think it is heavy enough to cause problems. I think really it is your best bet to get a chair pad and put there. It is a pivot point and that is not good.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  13. seamsealer

    seamsealer Pro Member

    I remember back to the 70's and 80's when kitchen sets had chairs with roller wheels on them and would see Armstrong solarian de-laminate from the wheels. The surface would separate from the backing and there was no way to fix that. Wheels on vinyl floors are tough.
     
  14. Sandee

    Sandee Member

    Thanks very much for your input!

    Thanks for getting back to me. Good to know that carpet would be a problem as well.

    Thanks very much for all the helpful information. Her small front wheels are about 1.25" and the rear larger wheels are 1.75". From what I am learning here all wheels are problematic. :((

    Thanks very much for all the input.

    Glad we did our asphalt driveway about 3-4 years ago! Thanks for the tip!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2018
  15. Sandee

    Sandee Member

    One last question...After the bubble is repaired how long would you recommend we wait after the job is done before we bring back the transport chair to the table and begin using it again. Any rule of thumb? Does it matter?
     
  16. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    72 hours is the typical rule with strong limitations in the first 24
     
  17. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Scary Mark! Almost like you have the writing on the bucket memorized!
     
  18. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    man, I have all the mapei buckets in the noggen... and then I read it again every time. I am never going down without a fight!!
     
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