Laminate multi purpose reducer / wood subfloor, GLUE?

Discussion in 'Hardwood & Laminate Sales and Installations' started by MFloor, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. MFloor

    MFloor Pro Member

    This place has become my go to place to make sure i dont make an ass out of myself.
    So far so good. That said, from what i have been reading about laminate transitions and gluing them down, i might have to leave my ego at home tomorrow, and admit i was.....nah not wrong, never wrong, but that my suggesting that actually using the tracks to install the reducers was the only way to go, was based on my own experiences over my 18 years installing hard surface flooring. However, even though at the time, i felt being told to just glue them down, was a way of covering "our" ass for not sending the tracks along with the transitions. as it turns out, yes sure 'we" were covering "our" ass, just not at your new floorings expenise. However since as i stated, i was not sure if i would actually be able to find the actually tracks for these transitions, i went ahead and looked into the whole gluing them down on a wood subfloor as a plan B, and..................................... ( yea i couldn't even type that with a straight face

    So guys, am i an ass? I am sure that it works, with the right glue, and amounts, etc, just not sure what the % is. I admit other then having the glue possibly take the top layer with it when it goes, and having it just not hold past the 1 year warrenty, i do not see a problem with it. Floating floor, wood subfloor both are going to move, isn't it just a matter of when, not if. Plus gluing down 30LF of reducer seems like much more work then just screwing down the tracks.
     
  2. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I've seen good tracks and bad tracks. Some of the plastic ones break when you snap them in. Or break after traffic hits it. The metal ones are the best but I still glue them too. l always have PL and gorilla and super glue on the truck so no big deal. I sometimes pin them with a nail gun too. Just depends.
     
  3. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    There's too many variables of each installation. The vertical movement will be the biggest potential for damage.

    These transitions are very weak, removing them usually damages to leg separating it from the top. I have done a repair where I removed the leg and just had the top for a T mold and it was a band across top with flex siliconed to the laminate and ceramic tile.

    Sometimes you need it rigid where construction adhesive will work, other times flex.

    So, they are weakest point, I see many repair orders for loose transitions.
     
  4. MFloor

    MFloor Pro Member

    Thanks for the replies, i kinda figured it was a do at your own risk. And i have spent my share of time preforming the delicate
    task of trying to get those POS out of the track. Got lucky once and the whole track pulled up, and it was pretty easy then.

    I have never been a by the "book" guy, i know what i know, and know what i dont. I am good at what i do, just dont ask me to explain it in to much detail. That said, once i joined here and started realizing i didn't know what the book even says, i figured might be time to go to school.

    The guys who work for the company are always there for advice, tips, whatever, just dont trust them as of yet.

    So i will have to get moving to go find the damn tracks this AM, I hate being wrong, but was hoping for everyone calling me an ass, and that glue was in the book as the new way.

    Oh and the carpet butcher are going in a few days, having to go right over my new laminate entry side of the GR. Been told they just put tack in front of my reducer, and tuck it. Sure how that high grade carpet, or have shoes on. So no chance glue made it past then.

    thanks
     
  5. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Having replaced many failed reducers that were installed by other installers, or even by myself back when I still used the tracks, I don't even mess with the tracks anymore. They are junk. Even if the track holds, the MDF reducers themselves can break if not installed perfectly or if too much carpet is stair tooled into the gully. The plastic reducers have to be fit 100% perfectly flat for the tracks to work and we all know that is almost never the case when transitioning to adjacent flooring. I've seen hot melt glued reducers pop loose and Gorilla glue will expand and ooze so that can get messy real quick if you aren't careful.

    I've found clear silicone to be the best bet for longevity and if you should have to remove the reducer down the road, it's just silicone. 23 gauge pinners will hold the reducer until the silicone sets. Like you, this is just what I have found that works for me and I haven't had one problem with reducers since adopting this method years ago.
     
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  6. MFloor

    MFloor Pro Member

    Thanks again for the advice. I always assumed guys just glued on concrete since drilling holes sucks. but i figured better to drill a few holes now, then to end up having to come back to drill them later.
    I got talked into a glue down strandwoven bamboo job, oh there is nothing to it , they said. You glue down LVP, you can do this, easy. Just dont let the glue dry on the surface of the bamboo, or you'll never be able to get it off once dried. But again, dont worry about that they said, the come with wet wipes glue remover, nothing to it.,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    knowing what i do now, that glue advice should have been more along the lines of once the glue touchs anything, anywhere, other then the subfloor, pack your shit.

    Not kidding here, spend 8 hrs, over a few days, with magic erasrers trying to.....well was trying to get the beautful home owner to see what a working man could offer..........but getting the haze left from the glue gone was also a goal.

    Im like a dog with a bone when it comes to needing answers, which lead me to the glue wipes being i want to say 2 yrs expired, since the $100 bucket of glue was only 1 yr expired, but might have both been just 1 yr. Even took pictures of the expired wipes still on the shelf in the isle, just waiting to runing the next floor. Which i guess i have to respect the store over, since they aren;t selling you something the wouldnt use on there own installations.

    So i stay away from glue, and hard surface flooring
     
  7. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Makes you want to be neater and more aware of a clean job.
     
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  8. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    And charge more
     
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  9. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Mfloor, what I'm getting out of this is your dealing with all the real world issues and the concepts which are "supposed" to work in theory.

    When you get to the job site and the flooring hits the floor it's game time, those theories no longer apply, improvision has to be applied based on other "theories"

    Take the tracks, precise placement if drilling is not easy in itself. Then there is height adjustment of the track, on and on other things can occur.

    The Urethane adhesive concept works for underneath the flooring, works on top as well but applied by the manufacturer or site Finish hardwood installer. I guess it's sort of like the business term "scalable" like McDonald's, or any other simple operation multiplied by the thousands. Until Urethane adhesive is easily cleanable days after it will not take market share.
     
  10. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    There is no comparison to glue down bamboo and glue down LVP except the word glue. I sure hope you didn't do the bamboo for LVP pricing. I've seen more problems with bamboo and they all seem to be installation related. Just not worth it for me to touch it for what it pays these days when I can make easy money doing a cheap product from a box store but that is a different topic.

    Now reducers are a different story. Plenty of problems but they are much more easily tweaked and fixed to each individual installer. Since the reducers are usually the last thing we install, you have to come up with a method that works for you and is a set and forget system. Combine that with the fact that each job has its own set of variables, sometimes you have to be Macguyver. I haven't seen anyone drill for reducers in maybe 20 years excluding commercial. There is a lot of trial and error that goes into how we do things and the instructions ,and instructors, just tell you how to install them like they are Legos. I still remember my Pergo instructor saying 'putty is not an installation tool'. You would be a fool not to have putty on your truck.
     
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  11. Steve Olson

    Steve Olson Hardwood/Laminate Guru Charter Member Senior Member

    Since the subject was gluing down reducers.... When I glue them on concrete, the big concern is keeping them from moving until the glue sets up. So, I use my old Orcon Peak Buster (??) glue gun, and, when laying down the bead of adhesive, I leave nickel sized spots unglued, say, 3 in a doorway. I used dabs of hot glue, in those voids, and then just hold the reducers in place for 30 seconds or so. Done.
     
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  12. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I have used hot glue but along with PL. Just don't trust the hot glue for a long hold alone. All the transitions I've done I think I have only drilled and plugged 2. Every job is different.
     
  13. MFloor

    MFloor Pro Member

    Dont recall what the bamboo paid SF, better then LVP SF, would not allow myself to do the hourly math......
     
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