Konecto Casa edges coming apart

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Lifsabsurd, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Maybe some retailers here can share their opinions and experiences as to how the industry typically addresses the labor/installation and tear out costs, restocking fees, shipping and handling, overhead and profit margin on warranty claims. I don't have any inside dope on that but fully agree with your general assumptions.
  2. Lifsabsurd

    Lifsabsurd Well-Known Member

    Would you say that, if you bought a car and a defectively manufactured brake caused you to incur losses for damaging property, that all you would be entitled to is the cost of the car?
  3. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Your insurance would cover the damages.

    Ever buy a product online and have to return it? Are shipping charges in returning the product covered? Not in my experience.

    In fact you typically are required to bring or pay to ship a product to an authorized repair store. Did you return the flooring to the dealer?

    Sucks but that is life in the US
  4. Lifsabsurd

    Lifsabsurd Well-Known Member

    The flooring was not returned. It cost me $300 to have it torn out and hauled away. I don't think the dealer wanted it back since it was not merely worth zero, it was a liability, i.e., it was worth less than zero.

    I think the point is this. The manufacturer did pay labor costs. I just didn't get my $300 out of this money.

    One thing I would like to know from experienced flooring retailers or distributors is how much in monetary terms did Konecto likely reimburse the distributor and/or retailer for the material cost? What is an approximate wholesale price for 54 boxes of Konecto Casa planks? Of course, I don't really expect a distributor or retailer to give me that information. But it bears on the question I am asking myself. Did the distributor and/or the dealer actually profit *additionally* on the settlement from Konecto? Did they not only NOT lose money, not lose their profits, but did they actually *make* more "profit" as a result of the settlement from Konecto?

    I paid about $2400 for the materials. I got that amount back. That figure, as far as I can tell, includes:

    1. cost and profit to the manufacturer
    2. cost and profit to the distributor
    3. cost and profit to the dealer

    As I understand it, Konecto gave to the distributor and dealer about $1500 (I am using rounded off figures) in addition to the cost of the materials. Does that figure likely fairly represent no more than the original cost and profit to the distributor and the retailer? Or, after giving me roughly $2400 of the total they got, did they make even more?

    Is $900 then the approximate wholesale cost of 54 boxes of Konecto Casa planks?
  5. Jackreed

    Jackreed jackreed Charter Member

    Help me understand this. You got all your money back on the material you installed? So your complaiant is you want some of the $1500 for tearing out the material?:confused: He offered $300 to you to tear out the flooring. Which he might have had intentions to collect from the manufacturer. But you turned it down?:confused:
  6. Lifsabsurd

    Lifsabsurd Well-Known Member

    No. I bought roughly $2400 worth of Konecto tile from a retailer. I installed it myself. It was defective and pulled apart. It cost me $300 to have it removed and hauled away. I asked for a complete refund of materials cost and got it, i.e., I got the approximately $2400 back. I also asked to have one of my incidental costs reimbursed, i.e., the $300 labor cost I paid to have the defective planks taken up and hauled away. I never asked for reimbursement for my own labor in the installation of the tile, although it seems to me that that would have been nice. If a professional installer had been involved, and I had paid him for the installation, he might very well have been reimbursed. I never asked for other incidental cost reimbursements either, such as the cost for renting a 100-pound roller required to fulfill warranty conditions.

    As I understand it, Konecto accepted responsibility and gave roughly $1500 labor reimbursement, plus the wholesale material cost, to the distributor and/or retailer in their settlement. I received, as I said, the retail material cost and not the $300 I asked for to pay for the labor of tearing out and hauling away the defective tile.

    At one point the dealer offered to give me the $300 in a way that I understood to be coming out of his own pocket. He said he would *try* to get this money back from Konecto. At that time my expectation was that Konecto would not pay for this. I thanked the dealer for his offer, but said that i did not want the money from his pocket, but I did want the money from Konecto. I have subsequently learned that both wholesale material cost and $1500 additional in labor cost was reimbursed by Konecto to the dealer and/or the distributor. It seems to me then that Konecto did give out the money to pay for the $300 in labor cost to the man who hauled away the defective tile. But I didn't get it.

    And, I don't think I will ever get it. Of course, I am not going to hire a lawyer. It would cost more than it is worth. I would caution flooring buyers to learn as much as they can about how the so-called manufacturer's warranty on a flooring product really works. It is far more complicated than one might first assume.
  7. Lifsabsurd

    Lifsabsurd Well-Known Member

    I hope I made it clear that the $300 in question was paid by me to a hired person, a "handyman" who had the means to haul the stuff away.
  8. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    This is just my opinion, but I believe you are owed $300.00 from the dealer. He agreed to pay your out of pocket expense to take the flooring up (after already refunding your full purchase price of the flooring). You initially turned 300.00 down when you thought it was a personal hardship on the dealer, but it sounds like it was very clear that you wanted the 300.00 if and when it was provided by Konecto.

    Konecto authorized the dealer to pay you up to 1,500.00 for expenses you may have incurred. The dealer would be required to show a canceled check issued to you or something to Konecto so that they could issue a check in the appropriate amount, not to exceed 1,500.00. I don't believe the dealer has received any amount over their reimbursement from the manufacturer refund (whatever the dealer paid for the cost of material).

    You should not expect payment for your labor to install the flooring. You were offered a courtesy reimbursement for your expense of the removal fees - Konecto has been known for such good will gestures, but they usually deal with the retailer, not directly with the consumer. It actually helps the manufacturer and the retailer look good to extend this good will (I won't go into how your retailer worded it or how you understood it that made you feel like it was a burden on the nice retailer man).

    You are owed 300.00 from the retailer, in my opinion. Nothing more. It doesn't matter that you initially turned it down, it was still something you wanted from the manufacturer and when it was authorized, a check should have been given you from the retailer.

    All this conjecture over what the retailer got or is entitled to get for profit or whatever is, frankly, none of your business. I never revealed to my customers what my margins were. Some dealers might, but it's certainly not an inalienable right. All this bad press about Konecto and Indiana Floors has had to have cost them far more than the 300 bucks - many times over. My hope is that they will give you a check for 300.00 so you can let us all know this matter has been settled fairly and we can let this discussion die.

    Mistakes were made by all. Yes, including you, lifsabsurd. If you had accepted the 300.00 when it was first offered, this stress in your life wouldn't have lasted so long. Konecto has paid dearly for an adhesive issue and have tried to handle each claim fairly. Dealers have been hurt by this and many have tried to weather this storm in the middle of very tough times. Occasionally an issue will be handled poorly by everyone involved. It's too much to wish for a happy ending to this one, but a sooner ending than later would be the best thing now.

    Please let us know when you have received your check.

  9. Lifsabsurd

    Lifsabsurd Well-Known Member

    You know, of course, that I have not asked for anything more, and I won't.

    Please don't hold your breath while waiting for me to receive the check. The dealer has refused to pay it.
  10. ortiz34

    ortiz34 2nd generation Senior Member

    People are still buying this stuff?:ohno:
  11. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Let Konecto know what is going on, they may put some pressure on the e-tailer.
  12. H Scott

    H Scott Pro Member

    I am the reseller

    Bob was offered $300.00 for the removal out of my pocket, he declined.
    I then offered to send a crew to do the removal he declined this as well.

    Konecto offered a settlement to us we refunded his order in full.

    We incurred cost to ship the product, we also spent countless hours working to get his claim resolved.
    We do not work for nothing.
    He was very helpful due to his knowledge base as a scientist.

    We are thankful for Bobs business and wish it would have worked out better.
    When we finalized the refund it was on the guarantee that no future action would be required by us.

    As I told Bob,this matter is closed legally, honestly and with a full refund.

    I am sorry it turned out as it did.
    For the failure on his floor we have thousands of success stories.His is an example of about a 2-4 % failure rate as any floor installed will exceed.

    I can only imagine what Luxe and Adura will face with thier subgrade glue strip.

    Konecto is an orginal product, it is innovative and well made.

    While we all ponder floor failures lets remember the days of Mannington Gold, Pergo, Witex, etc.... shall I go on ? These manufactures hold thier heads up high and move on.
    We learn from our mistakes Metroflor has done the same.
    Quality control can be compromised when a product takes the stage like Konecto has.
    Metroflor is working very hard to keep control they are doing a great job.
    H Scott
  13. Mike Sahli

    Mike Sahli Pro Member

    Yes !! In crazy amounts when you include the Home Depot product. Home Depot can't keep it in stock.

    Some people may not like Konecto but it you have to respect a product that has had so much negative press and still sells so well that every manufacturer is trying to knock it off.

    Saying you won't sell or install the product doesn't mean much when so many others will.
  14. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I installed this in my own living/kitchen area. I didn't do a perfect prep, used the wrong underlayment (15# saturated felt) and I couldn't get the floor done very fast. But I love the floor. It's beautiful. A few places the glue strip separated and I had to heat and roll it again, but that's been a small hassle compared to the joy I have with my Konecto Prestige.

    Attached Files:

  15. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor Senior Member

    Looks good Jim. We did a early childhood learning center last year with that exact same style of konecto, it's a nice looking floor. That's one of the biggest selling points of this product in my opinion.
  16. Lifsabsurd

    Lifsabsurd Well-Known Member

    Please explain how a manufacturer's warranty is settled by the manufacturer giving the settlement to the distributor and/or the dealer and not giving it to the consumer. As far as I am concerned that is complete nonsense. A manufacturer's warranty is a contract between the manufacturer and the end consumer. Konecto should not put the distributor and dealer between themselves and the consumer.

    Konecto credited just over $1500 and gave back the cost of the materials as well, the flooring. It is not clear whether the materials cost they gave out was the wholesale value or the retail. If it was the retail you and/or the distributor shared $1500 plus dollars on the settlement. If it was the wholesale value, and if the sum of that wholesale value plus about $1500 was more than my retail bill of about $2266.25, then you and/or the distributor still made additional money on the settlement.

    Interesting that you seem to consider the profit that you made on the first sale to be *your* money and, negating the bad sale and giving back the ill-gotten profit you made you seem to consider to be money coming out of your own pocket, and not money that was never really fairly yours. In my opinion your sense of morality stinks.

    Konecto advises me to see you for the $300. They imply in an e-mail through the BBB that it is to come out of the roughly $1500 they credited for labor costs. You have that money. I said all along TO YOU that I wanted the $300 *from Konecto*. You never told me that Konecto authorized that payment to come from them. In my opinion you kept that money for yourself.

    Your "work" in submitting the warranty is part of your job. I did the real work in typing up forms and e-mailing them to you. You seem to have done little except to forward them to Konecto. At one point you even asked me for a form I had already filled out and submitted to you by e-mail. You must have spent hours reading it. NOT. I also did far more work in a futile installation of defective tile. I never even asked for reimbursement for that.

    I have filed another complaint, this time with the BBB of Indiana, against Indiana Floors, LLC. So far I have had no response from you, Mr. Scott, and it has been at least a week. But then what would I expect from someone who considers the BBB to be a "toothless dog" and believes they have no control over a situation like this, and that they charge fees that are too large for membership. You don't belong to the BBB, and I can readily understand why that is so.

    In my opinion , the Konecto warranty isn't worth anything and I cannot recommend that anyone do business with them or with you, Mr. Scott. I consider you to be completely dishonest. Learning from mistakes is good. Konecto looks good, but buying it is a crap shoot. I will never again buy any product from Metroflor, nor from you. I cannot recommend that anyone else should either.

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