Karastan disaster!

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by cobravenom, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. cobravenom

    cobravenom Pro Member

    We work for a builder in south Tulsa. He had some customers a few months back that just had to buy their $100 a yard wool from [a store] down the road. Well the installers butchered it up beyond repair. Baseboards cost them $1000 to repair and repaint. So the builder calls [the store] out and they repair a seam here and there but job doesn't get any better. Customers finally just move in and give up. My question to you guys is this. What is the time limit for the builder to just call a karastan rep? They could force a fix correct?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2012
  2. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor Senior Member

    Beyond repair? That's pretty bad.
     
  3. cobravenom

    cobravenom Pro Member

    Yes. Every wall cut short where you can see the flooring. Stairs patterns crooked. Patterns in rooms off on most every wall. They even put builder grade pad in. With more carpet I'm sure it could be repaired. I feel bad for the builder because he has always used my dad and me through his career and had no clue to contact a rep
     
  4. R.K

    R.K Pro Member

    Shouldn't the builder be able to point and laugh at his customer for bringing in their own sub?
     
  5. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor Senior Member

    Wow, that does sound like a disaster. The bad news is that it falls on the installers/shop that installed it. The good news is that the builder will now make sure to use you guys on all his work.
     
  6. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Cobravenom, from what you share, it sounds to me like you are way off base ((no pun intended)) and getting involved in something that is not your business. Unless the builder is wanting to hire you as a professional third party to inspect, report and offer a plan for remedy, don't get involved. You sound like a nice guy and I have no doubt your intentions are honorable but good intentions a two bucks can get you a coffee.

    Unless it is a manufacturing issue, getting the Karastan rep involved is also useless. If, IF, IF the materials were purchased through a Karastan dealer, the end user may be able to get remedy by contacting Karastan themselves and making a claim against the dealer for fraud. But seriously, that's a long haul and requires a lot of anger and emotional energy.

    The remedy for this is really quite simple. The buyer needs to contact an independent third party inspector that is certified by Karastan or an organization that Karastan recognizes. ((Which is easily done)) The inspector issues a detailed report and documents existing conditions and any failure to adhere to manufactures installation guidelines.

    With report in hand, the end user needs to obtain a written quote for full replacement from another Karastan dealer. The end user then submits the cost for inspection, quote for replacement along with the inspectors report to the seller requesting full and complete replacement in accordance with manufactures instructions plus expenses incurred to date with in the next thirty days or face legal action, plus all court costs.

    If the seller fails to respond or provide remedy, the end user needs to file suit in local court and they will, absolutely and most certainly, win a judgement. As difficult as this process may sound, it is far less draining then trying to bully the rep into obtaining remedy.

    The sad truth of the matter is, if what you describe is accurate, the original dealer is most likely unable to deliver a proper installation and any judgement will only be as good as the financial status of the seller.

    Hey, I do wish you well with this, but make no mistake, if you try to swim with sharks, you will get bit. Stay away from this mess and remind the poor builder why you're not always the low bidder. :yesss: Hope this helps.

    Dobby
     
  7. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    As usual dobby is on target and has the solution summed up in one post! I would only add that www.cfiinstaller.com has a "find an installer in your area" search service that I recomend to people as a way to get qualified installation. It doesn't hurt that I am at the top of the list as the only CFI master II installer in the state!;)
     
  8. Demonseed

    Demonseed Pro Member

    Only have to disagree with the beginning, I think he is just asking for advice to give the builder/customer, going Above and Beyond what might be expected in this scenario. I don't see it as anything more than that, what should he have said to his Builder friend, Sorry buddy, not my problem??
     
  9. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    Or he could have said "you get what you pay for....I sure hope those guys were cheap!" If you jump in the deep dark water to save a drowning person don't be too surprized when they cling to you so hard that you both drown!
    ( just sayin')
     
  10. Demonseed

    Demonseed Pro Member

    I don't understand the reasoning here. You know a builder, he uses another installer and there is a problem, so you go to a website, such as the Floorpro to ask what kind of recourse said Builder may have, and everyone tells the guy, hey man, it is not your problem, don't get involved. Kind of have me confused, I thought the whole idea of the site, was to give people that type of information. Think about it, using what Dobby stated at the beginning of his reply, should cobravenom not relay the rest of the information to the Builder?

    I seem to recall a short time ago another member of this site talking about a similar situation where he was not the customer or installer, and someone hacked in the job, don't recall anyone telling him to mind his own business.....
     
  11. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    What he should have said is the truth, which is; as much as I appreciate your confidence in seeking my opinion, as a service provider working in the same service sector, and technically a competitor, I need to pass because anything I might offer and/or contribute could be seen as bias. What you really need are the services of an unbiased, independent, third party professional.

    Then, if he really wanted to get involved and be of service, he could use his contacts in the trade to establish a connection between a competent and qualified third party professional and the end user.

    Dobby

    PS: The fact that he has an established business relationship with the builder calls anything he says or does into question, no matter how correct it may be. Recusing himself from this event is not only the professional thing to do, it is the kindest thing to do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  12. Demonseed

    Demonseed Pro Member

    Wouldn't that be what he is doing by asking the Professionals here, for advice as to what to tell his builder friend?
     
  13. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    I don't think Cobra should "mind his own business" but he should deffinetly proceed with caution.
     
  14. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    If I read right, it was stated that the consumer picked where they wanted to buy the carpet. ( Yes the consumer has the right to do so, we get called in all the time. ) With that being said it is up to the consumer to have the concern's taken care of, the builder can give his input but it is still up to the customer to deal with it.
    What dobby said on how to handle it is the way to go.
     
  15. Mike Mahoney

    Mike Mahoney Pro Member

    The builder or homeowner (whichever one made the purchase) needs to call the carpet store to let them know they are still not satisfied with the job.

    A decent flooring store will take care of it regardless of how much time has passed.
     
  16. cobravenom

    cobravenom Pro Member

    Thank you to everyone that posted! I was just curious as to whether there was a simple route to take in this situation. I've never been involved in a job that an inspector had to be called out besides a side match problem three years ago twice in the same house lol I am only 30 so I have a ton of learning to do yet. I think I've read over 100 threads here already and have learned from all of them. Wish I found you guys years ago! I am sure I will have more questions in the future such as does a kool glide release harmful waves or where can I learn to sew carpet since the guy I would have asked that taught dad passed away a few years back! Future posts!! Thanks again everyone
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  17. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    This is ALL Cobra asked!!

    Answer: There is no time limit for calling a rep, but ONLY for a manufacturer defect!!

    They cannot force a fix!!!

    PS: since you are in Tulsa, maybe Tandy knows someone who could take a look at it.
     
  18. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Understanding the claims process is extremely important information we should ALL know more about, as it very often transcends our industry policies due to the fact that nearly all transactions involve some form of interstate commerce which brings us under the umbrella of the UCC or Uniform Commercial Code.

    As exampled in the start of this tread, what begins as a simple query to lodge a complaint with a company representative is, in all actuality, a legal issue that involves interstate contract law. Hence my comment for Cobravenom being way off base. Only because he is off base in his understanding of what is actually happening and/or required.

    To compound the issue, and this is not a slight towards him, he is clearly not actively involved in retail sales and yet, is attempting to assist in an area that is clearly outside his area of professional expertise. Hence, not his business.

    As much as this may seem like an 'installation issue' it is not. While improper installation may the root source of the dissatisfaction, the claim is between the buyer and the seller and is governed by many conditions including, but not limited to; the purchase/sales agreement, local, state & federal contract law.

    If the seller fails to perform to the reasonable expectations of the buyer, it is the responsibility of the buyer to notify the seller of the perceived failure. If remedy to the mutual satisfaction of both parties is not realized, it is the responsibility of the dissatisfied party to gather documentation supporting their claim and, first resubmit it to the other party. Again, if an agreement can not be reached, the supporting documentation is then submitted to an independent third party, be it an arbitrator or local court for resolution.

    However, to get builders, installers, sales reps and retailers ((all of whom are bias in their own favor)) arguing about who's responsible for what and how things should be done is, for all intents and purposes, a huge waste of time, energy, money and emotions. That's all.

    Hopefully this helps.

    Dobby

    Cobravenom, to you personally, I hope this discussion here is a benefit to you and your career. Also, please know that I greatly respect your intentions and attitude to get things done correctly, even when they are not yours. Our industry needs more professionals like you and please, keep moving it forward, onward and upward.
     
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