Is This a Design Flaw in the Schluter Drain?

I have a documented record of what I percieve to be a design flaw in the Schluter Drain body.
You all know we sell Schluter and other styles, this is not to blackball Schluter as our sales are great, it is to offer documentation and pictures showing an issue I have long feared.

I will not proceed without a Mod or Jims permission.
Please advise.

 

The issue: Schluter drain

I installed this job in Feb of 2008, it was for a neighbor and he is a big guy, about 450 lbs.
I was concerned when I installed it that the Schluter drain could not support his wieght. I even dreamed about him setting his heel in the drain center and that plastic connecting "o ring" collapsing, that is how concerned I was.
My dreams and fears were confirmed today, his ex-wife called and said the tiles around the drain had come loose. I went and inspected it and found the tiles loose on one side of the drain, the side he would set his heel while standing in the shower.

Detail:They have been divorced for about 1 year, she said it felt funny a few months after install but they were both having personal issues and did not have time to deal with the floor and the house was in dispute.

Issue:When I pressed on the right handlower corner of the drain cover there was downward movement, enough to break the slate 2x2s, not only did the movement break the slate free from the mesh, it broke a tile. The mesh is still applied to the floor and the tile, so that indicates the the movement was enough to break the bond the thinset had on the tile.
I used unmodified thinset as Schluter suggest. I was still a kool-aid drinker in those days.....

I will post the pictures in a few hours, they are on my iphone, I need to download them and label the areas.
I gotta run right now.

 

Had a problem loading pics from my Mac
I will get them up today when I get back to my mainframe.

To go along with Tullis I am sure Schluter will say the same, they always do,according to them it is always installer error if there is a failure.

 

Opinions are welcome.
I will draw up a diagram showing how the shower door placement would show his foot placement in these areas.

 

Contacting Schluter:

I will be filing a claim with Schluter.

If he was still in the house I would rip the whole drain out, Since he is no longer there and I am sure Schluter will find a way to wiggle out of their warranty,(it seems they always do) I have an idea on how I may fix it.

I would calculate these issues came into play: His large frame, the use of unmodified thinset, the ring that snaps to the bottom of the drain cover cannot support the wieght, the unmodified thinset could not sustain the flex.

The .bmp will not load perhaps one of your mods can help me out.
It is 554.6 kb 425x455r it should load, I tried twice.
Thanks

 

I would like to see other input rather than yours since you disagree with all I do and I disagree with all you say,imply and think.

 

Good question RG, I installed it after discussing the issue with another pro.
We both agreed the Schluter was the way to go and at that time there were no wieght limitations for this type of issue..
I was not aware that Loxcreen (ProVa sys)used the same drain body style yet thier drain cover unit screwed into the body. So....really at that time it was our best option as opposed to mudsetting the pan. I researched it online and found no negative feedback so I over-rode my instincts and went ahead with the job.

Barry: What I perceive as the flaw is the floating snap on plastic ring pictured here:...


...was forced down into the drain body cavity when the weight of the client was presented on the corner/edge of the drain:



Jim, I apologize for biting the hook.

We all agree that Schluter is innovative and has brought to bear a new way to install showers, it saves us time and since time is money , it saves us money.

I think however that we must never stop thinking about ways to better our situations and direct this applied knowledge in such manners that we see a better aspect of the whole picture.

 

I have you on ignore Scott but I know anything you say will be an attempt to discredit me so I will respond.

The thinset was applied properly. All proper manufacture directions and procedures were followed by the book, this was done in certain because of my primary concern.
This is why this is a textbook failure, either they need to put a weight limit spec on their drains or consider a redesign. If a person of my limited knowledge can see it is a problem, why can't they.

How many other installers in the world have encountered this same issue and been told it was their fault after they knew everything was done according to specs.

 

Look at the picture, you will see the mesh and thinset is on both surfaces, that indicates there was bond to the floor and the tile.
One piece of slate had broke in half meaning the top layer and the bottom layer of the slate has separated as slate will do when put under pressure and the natural fault gives way.

Why would I suggest his size is a concern to Schluter? I don't understand that question. "His size" would not be the concern, a general weight limit spec would be proper or the drain redesigned if this is a design flaw.

The snap ring is still secure to the cover, it is however moving vertically in the drain body.
You said:
"Did Schluter make, sell, supply, or apply the mortar? If not are they responsible for its performance?" You say you want to have serious discussion then ask a question like that?
Let me humor you since I see where you are going; Ditra-Set was not available in our market in 2008, it may not have even been in the states yet.
We used Mapei unmodified thinset.
Yes...they would be responsible for the performance of the components when this install was done by the book.....would they not.. if not why warranty?

I perceive the ring to be moving; as we would look down at the drain... ...down and to the left with enough force to break the tile free from the thinset yet leave the mesh attached to both surfaces. this is not much movement but it does not take much.When I push it with my thumb with a degree of pressure of my upper body weight it moves.

We all know the obligation of the installer,I am not going get into that with you.

What we should be looking for is cause and effect,put down the kool-aid and approach it objectively as we should be looking at this trade.
We are the installers, do we crash like lemmings to the sea at the say so of Schluter or any manufacture....
How many times have manufacture specs been wrong.... in my 28 years of experience, back with the knowledge base of my dad and my brothers I would say 30-40% of the time specs from manufactures can be enhanced or adjusted by install procedures.
I have made suggestions to manufactures that I have seen them eventually turn to, not saying my suggestion changed them but saying all suggestions prompted change, mine only being one.

In this case.... should have I went against the manufacture and packed mud in around the snap ring..... should have I used modified thinset to set the tile...
If I went against the specs and it failed they would not warranty....(that is before I knew Schluter does not support their warranties, not that we have seen anyway.)
I wanted to pack mud around the ring on this job but decide not to so I would retain warranty. I also wanted to use modified thinset, as my first instinct since it was slate and the absorption rate of the moisture out the thinset is greater than normal, but again, I chose to use what Schluter said I must.

We all still have to ability to think for ourselves, lets not forget that.

Had I done what I thought, instead of what Schluter says, would we be having this conversation..... I don't think so.