Is there something wrong with my vinyl installation?

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by deseraimp, May 24, 2017.

  1. deseraimp

    deseraimp Member

    Hi everyone,

    I'm hoping to get an informed opinion or two, as I'm a new homeowner and have very little experience with flooring.

    I got sheet vinyl installed in my kitchen on top of old linoleum. It's worked fine, but there's something I just can't shake. There's an unsightly "line" going down the entire length of the floor.

    [​IMG]

    It spans the entire length of the floor, even behind me. It makes the kitchen look a whole lot smaller. The point of the diagonal pattern was to give it a little more dimension, but the line is ruining it for me. I can't "not see it" when I enter the room.

    Am I overreacting? Is this something that can reasonably be fixed? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

    Steven
     
  2. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    There are things that could cause that:
    • A seam in the old flooring showing through
    • A seam in the underlayment under the old flooring that was there before, but you never noticed it.
    You're not overreacting. Call your installer and ask him or her to fix it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. deseraimp

    deseraimp Member

    Thanks for the reassurance & helpful info, Jim! I'll give them a call.
     
  4. Steve Olson

    Steve Olson Hardwood/Laminate Guru Charter Member Senior Member

    Or...They folded the vinyl back along that line, and got zero/too much adhesive at the point of the fold.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    My first guess would be what Steve said. It's not always easy to hide that spread line where you have to do half and half in larger areas. There are many tricks to hiding where you snapped the line and glued half at a time. There are many more ways to dork it up.
     
  6. deseraimp

    deseraimp Member

    Thanks, everyone! Really appreciate the input. I placed a call and should hear back within a few days.

    I'm just really hoping they won't have to tear the whole thing up and start over... last thing I need is another headache :)
     
  7. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'd say too much adhesive, it's at the starting point where the trowel is loaded with adhesive, sometimes it's hard to see under the rounded portion folded over so when you push the trowel under the vinyl the trowel is slightly off slab, estimate when to drop trowel on slab to pull back and adhesive squeezes off trowel.

    A metal small roller will minimize it, not sure if it will "totally" disappear.
     
  8. Floor Boss

    Floor Boss Flooring Professional and Mgr. I Support TFP

    At first glance I agreed with the possibilities of either 'the fold' or previous floor/underlayment. Taking a second and third look at the photo and the line appears discolored. Perhaps it's due to the increased height and lighting angle from too much glue at 'the fold' but I'm impressed that the line looks to be perfectly parallel to the pattern. Isn't that interesting? (Good Bad work? Bad Good work?)
    DB
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Having a perfectly straight glue line is an impressive mistake. I thought it was a glue line as well but after I noticed how straight it was I leaned towards something underneath like an underlayment seam. Is there a crown in the floor?
     
  10. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    Can you feel it? If not it might just be a defect.
     
  11. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    I would LOVE to know what you guys are looking at that are commenting on various aspects of the complaint. From the photo I see on my screen there's absolutely NO visible defect in either the materials or the installation. What I see looks perfect.

    I'm on a fairly old laptop with Firefox browser. I wonder if you guys get a significantly different image--------or am I now completely F'n blind. I'm ready to schedule my other eye for cataract surgery. I put it off WAY too long. But I do have 20/25 in the eye that's already been done. So what's up?
     
  12. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    You're blind, there's a dark line right down the middle
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    *************************
    You son of a gun!

    I jiggled the laptop screen around, closed one eye and looked at it from different angles and sure as Shinola I could see the line.

    Now I'm near completely sure that's a spread line.

    You can't fix that........sorry to say. Sometimes it's air/gas/excess adhesive that will dissipate over time. That's your only hope. No telling how long it could take. DONT FORGET------vinyl shrinks over time 100% and that will also be friendly to the dissipation/relaxation of the fold effect.

    Or you could just look the other way.
     
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    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I kind of see it now on the iPad, and Kyle pointing it out, I assumed there was clumps of adhesive in a line. Looks like it's in the vinyl. My color perception is somewhat deficient, very subtle differences I can not detect.
     
  15. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Some patterns of material show a linear design like this. It is inherent to the design of the flooring, in fact in my kitchen there is just such a line. The late Tandy Reeves called it "linear juxtaposition", simply meaning it was how the patterns color/pattern fell.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    Given that the line crosses the pattern in the floor at a 45 degree angle, I would have to think that the line is site / installation related. I would tend to think a line caused by a shading issue or manufacturing problem would run directly in the length of the roll, not cross at an odd angle. The other thing that tends to make me think it's site/installation is that it runs almost down the center of the room, where they would have likely folded the piece back when gluing. Could be a ridge in the subfloor telegraphing, but since the original poster didn't mention being able to feel it, I'd tend to lean toward a glue line.
     
  17. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    I may have made a bad assumption. I think this is an Armstrong piece and from their photography it looks like this pattern runs at a 45 degree angle. I thought the piece had been installed at a 45 degree angle. I still think, based on the position in the room, it's pretty suspect of the line running almost right down the center of the room.
     
  18. deseraimp

    deseraimp Member

    Thanks everyone for the additional input. I know very little about all this, so it's nice to hear more informed analysis.

    For anyone who may have cared for an update, the company (Empire) determined the defect to be a "crush line" in the vinyl itself. Today their subcontractors were supposed to replace it, but they came all the way over just to say "Yeah, I wouldn't trust the quality of this vinyl. You should call and ask for different people to come install it, and also consider getting a different color / quality vinyl." Ok, thanks anyway!...

    The frustrating thing is, the picture I showed you is actually from the SECOND time this floor was installed (Feb 2017). The first time (Nov 2016), there was a different problem, but no giant seam like this. So for that reason, his argument of "you'll always have seams, because the vinyl is poor quality" didn't really hold for me.

    I may just ask for my money back. Enough is enough.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Commercial Floor Rep

    Commercial Floor Rep I Support TFP Published

    Hmmm, possible but doubtful that it's a "crush line". A crush line is caused when the roll is placed on the storage rack and ends up laying on top of the end of the roll. This puts a "dent" in the roll not a raise. These will also almost always come out over time. What happens is the weight of the roll resting on the edge of the end exceeds the static load limit of the floor and dents it. But, because of the resilient (rebound) qualities of the product many times, even if the static load limit has been exceeded these will eventually rebound. I can usually look at the backing of the material and tell you whether or not it will rebound. If the backing is creased to the point of breaking, it won't. But if the backing isn't creased badly, it nearly always will rebound over time.

    The other problem with this excuse is that line would have had to be there when they installed the floor - so why did they proceed to install the floor?

    I think we figured out this was an Armstrong product. Armstrong is a really good manufacturer and makes good products. The comments about the product don't really add up to me either. I think they probably just realized it was an installation issue and didn't want any part of the blame or if they didn't do the original job they may not have wanted to incriminate a fellow installer.

    At any rate, it's not your fault this happened. Whether it's a manufacturing issue or an installation issue, it's not right. I'd make Empire take care of it for you.

    Good luck, and thanks for updating us. It's nice to hear the outcome of a situation and we seldom get that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. deseraimp

    deseraimp Member

    This sounded a bit off to me as well... But yeah, that's ultimately what they said, and the manufacturer covered them for it -shrug-.

    This definitely seems possible, because they kept suggesting I ask for new installers haha. Seems very much like "let's just cut our losses..."

    And FYI yes, this installer did both the first and second job, and was supposed to do the third today. The problem with the first Nov 2016 job was they didn't hook my fridge's ice-maker line back up tightly enough.. resulted in some water damage to the floor and it needed replacement. Which is a shame, because it looked beautiful then. Then the Feb 2017 installation had that seam line. He's apparently been doing this for 15+ years, so I didn't see any reason to distrust his work. Ah well... just seems like bad luck.
     
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