Invincible cork backing LVP from Carpet One

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Sonny_Oregon, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. Sonny_Oregon

    Sonny_Oregon Member

    Posted a few days ago. Feedback I received was great so I'm back. Here is where I'm at now. Looking at having Carpet One install their invincible line in my home. 300sqft. Originally wanted to do it myself but Carpet One offers lifetime warranty on installation as well as the product. They have a style which has a cork backing for $4.99sq/ft and another style at $4.19sq/ft without the cork backing. From what I've read the cork backing is supposed to make the floor quieter to walk on. I'm wondering how true this and if anyone here has any feedback on this? Also, any preference to Coretec vs Invincible brand in general?

    Thanks!!
     
  2. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I've installed Cortec flooring with cork back and yes, I think it is quieter than the underlays out there.
     
  3. Don Monfils

    Don Monfils PRO CARPET Charter Member

    I'm pretty sure if the invincible product has a cork back,
    it is made by core-tec
    I have installed miles of the core-tec and think it's a great floor!
    I would spend a little more and get the cork back.
     
  4. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor Senior Member

    I'm guessing it's a private lablrd coretec, people love the stuff.
     
  5. Sonny_Oregon

    Sonny_Oregon Member

    Interesting. I could have sworn while in the store, the LVP which had cork on the bottomside was the invincible line. And the Coretec was in a separate section with different warranty and such. Now I'm confused. Lol. Will call Carpet One tomorrow to clarify. Thanks for the feedback though. Regardless of what brand, sounds like the cork bottom is a good option.
     
  6. Isabella Flooring

    Isabella Flooring Pro Member

    It's Cortec privately labeled for Carpet One.
    BlowYou/Beaulieu has the same thing, Just life shaw which owns CorTec
     
  7. Sonny_Oregon

    Sonny_Oregon Member

    Found out that the Invincible H20 brand does indeed have cork backing on some of their products. The regular Invincible brand does not have cork backing. Coretec does indeed have the cork backing as well. All that said, talked to a couple of local installers who stated if you're installing on a one-story home there is really no need for the cork backing.
     
  8. j248

    j248 I Support TFP

    I do not believe that cortec has any sort of exclusive right to use cork as the backing on wpc. Other brands use cork too.
     
  9. I'll weigh in on the acoustics and the comfort. The amount of cork in the CoreTec/Invincible lines is worth the extra price. And "No," noise isn't just a one dimensional event. It doesn't just 'go down' (the one installer talking about a single level home). In fact, noise BOUNCES around. Off the floor, the ceilings, the walls, the windows (LOVES bouncing off windows...loves, loves, loves it).

    Even though the amount of cork is small, it packs a big punch. Cork EATS echo (bouncing noise). And yes...it can be noticeable. It is enough to drop the noise from "clackity clack" to "thunk thunk".

    One of the biggest upsets people have (with floating flooring) is the clicky noise it produces (the hollow drum sound). The cork eliminates that irritant.

    I would do it. But then again I'm not paying to it.
     
  10. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Yes the product from Carpet One is a private label and most likely the Cortec. You ask way the extra warranty? Carpet One does this on lots of products. For them to take on a product they make a deal with the manufacture for added time to the warranty. As far as to go with or without the cork. Yes if it was a laminate you get that clicking sound but not with the LVP, different surface. I have sold and installed thousand of sf of it and it making a noise has never been a concern. Warm under feet and less stress on the legs is the up side to the cork.
     
  11. j248

    j248 I Support TFP

    Sound waves are amazing at making their voice heard, and beyond flexible.


    Stephanie since you know far more about cork than I do, I was hoping you can answer a question I have been pondering for a bit...Sorry to derivative from the OP question, but here goes. Cork seems to be a fairly porous wood material, so my question is how is WPC with cork waterproof more than traditional click locking LVT, or even WPC with say IXPE on the back for sound deadening? I would normally research this at length, but I figured I would ask someone who knows the material.
     
  12. Z-Carpet

    Z-Carpet Pro Member

    my rep from Cortech told me the same exact thing, the actual percent of sound deadening so minimal its not even noticeable unless its in a high raise apartment buildings
     
  13. @j248 - Cork appears porous but it isn't. It is a closed cell material that has plenty of air trapped inside. If it was truly porous, it would leak like a sieve. But it doesn't. It is used in the wine industry for centuries.

    Not the point. The construction of the cork cell (kinda like a honey comb...but far more complicated) combines trapped air and fibrous wood structure. It is held together with a material the plank produces (all plants produce it...but cork is VERY good at it) called suberin. It's a waxy product kinda like ear wax :)blink: ick I know...but it's the only way I can describe it).

    The cell structure of cork with all the air pockets is what deadens sound. Sound is a pressure wave = AKA a VIBRATION. Vibration (whether it be inside or outside of the range of hearing it doesn't matter) is deadened by cork. I mean it KILLS vibration. Kills it.

    This works with thermal transfer (when one hot molecule bumps into another one = heat TRANSFER = a form of vibration = kills it) acoustic transfer and mechanical vibration (a dump truck running over a bridge's expansion joint). Cork doesn't care what type of "vibration" it is...it still deals with it rather efficiently.

    We estimate that for every 1mm of cork the acoustics are reduced by 2 dB. It doesn't sound like a lot but only solid rubber has that type of efficiency with noise. Rubber doesn't do much for thermal nor heat...but it does a little (aka: better than nothing).

    That being said, the biggest benefit to the small amount of cork underneath the CoreTec will be the deadening of the "clackity clack" sound of things moving across the floor (like dogs nails, high-healed shoes, etc.). Cork LOVES to "kill" the higher frequency stuff (the clackity clack stuff).

    The vinyl surface is still a reflective hard surface. There is no getting around it. Sound will still bounce around. The small amount of cork underneath will help a little with the echo in a space (2-4 dB can be enough to move from HORRIBLE sounding space to "slightly irritating"). The benefit will be more the sound of things moving across the floor as well as the slight bit of cushion and the thermal break (not quite as cold feeling as regular 4mm vinyl).

    Good luck.
     
  14. j248

    j248 I Support TFP

    I of course understand the sound deadening aspects of cork, and understand sound in general, as that is what I spent a large part of my life doing i.e. music production and so on. I greatly appreciate your explanation, and I like cork as a floor itself, so I hope that didn't come off sounding like I was knocking it at all. I know Amorim and all they do as the largest cork manufacturer, and with Wicanders etc...

    I just was curious about what you originally answered in terms of water...

    Again thanks thanks for the info, and the good luck, though I am not sure why I good luck was stated, I can certainly use it for the next Powerball. :)
     
  15. The waterproof aspect comes from the click system. Surface water should not disturb the cork because it should not GET to the cork. All click systems have the same vulnerability = joints.

    A click together plank will still require a vapour barrier underneath if it is being installed over concrete. There is no way around this. Cork or no cork...the vapour barrier (over cement slab) will still be required.

    I'm not sure if that is what you are after or not...but they all have the same vulnerability = seams and water getting past the locking system and hitting the subfloor. Most manufacturers have figured this out...or they claim to have it figured out. The question becomes: do you need water RESISTANT (impervious to surface moisture) or do you need water PROOF (like porcelain tiles = full submersion without issue)?

    If a vinyl plank has a cork backing, it will not survive full submersion. A plain LVP has the *potential to survive full submersion...but salvaging it is such a royal pain in the butt that it is rarely attempted by homeowners.

    I hope this helps.
     
  16. j248

    j248 I Support TFP

    Yea that's what I was trying to get at, and I should have been less wordy and more specific. I had typed that water is clever and determined to get to the bottom of things in my first post, then deleted it because I didn't want to to make my post into some sort of clever attempt to ask a simple question.

    I commend US Floor for their marketing immensely...I always have, as what they did, to develop the product/new category is very impressive.
     
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