Install vs. Union

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by eaadams, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    So I just learned that Install is tied together with the Carpenter's union. A number of flooring manufacturers are pairing with Install for 'manufacturer certifications". But here in California, the Flooring Union is the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, AFL-CIO.

    How do people reconcile this? Do unions allow training from other unions? Seems like a slippery slope.

    Really NOT trying to spur a union conversation just ... how does it work?
  2. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I read that the other day as well going thru e mails of Talkfloor from over two years ago, most of videos are deleted.
    I also read your (eaadams) input on some wagner stuff, intense conversation about Silicates.
    Bricklayers and allied craftsman Union has marble/stone/tile setters and are teaming up with NTCA, my opinion, whoever trains anyone regardless there's some serious training that needs to happen no matter who it is.
  3. Steve Forbo

    Steve Forbo Pro Member

    I am INSTALL certified through my Union. We are "Floor Coverers" part of the Carpenters and Joiners. I am about as anti union as they get due to this kind of junk they throw out there. It is a scam as far as I am concerned.
    The sad part is that here in NY, the certification is a one day thing. Half watching bogus, outdated slides and video clips. Followed by installing a 4x8 cubicle.
    As far as the "resilient" INSTALL goes, it is a sad test of a mechanics abilities. It covers the following(all in one 4x8...yes 32 sq.ft. mock up):
    1. Lay out VCT on a diagonal centered in one 4x4 ft section of the box with a door jamb and a 1.5 ft box sticking out of a wall, opposite the door. You must "swing an arch" to get your 45* angle...LOL
    2. Hang about 7 ft of cove base with 2 inside and 2 outside corners.
    3. Flat scribe a piece of sheet vinyl to the door buck and 2 flat walls. (real tough stuff... :) )
    4. Pattern scribe a piece of Linoleum to a crooked/curved wall.
    5. Heat weld a 4 ft line in the vinyl.
    Needless to say that the majority of so called mechanics can't do any of this, yet are still paid almost $100 hr....LOL The Union makes sure to pass them.
    I was in a class of 10, and me and one other guy legitimately passed. The other 8 failed miserably, yet are INSTALL certified.
    The NYCDCC Local 2287 is filled with butchers that have no right to call themselves flooring professionals. If you wan't, I can post a thousand pictures of these so called INSTALL certified guys work that I have repaired...LOL
    This was one of the many things that makes me anti union.
    It's the same with OSHA. We have to be OSHA 30 certified, yet 80% of the OSHA 30 has nothing at all to do with anything related to flooring or finish carpentry. It is all about insurance, construction politics, and the union trying so desperately to keep the power that it is loosing at a rapid pace.
    In the last year or so, I have been mainly working Prevailing Wage jobs without the bogus Union politics. The jobs run smoother, get done better and faster. and we make more money at the end of the week.
    But that is just my take on it. Your mileage may vary.....
  4. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    Oh ok so in NY the same union covers both. Here in CA they are different halls. So trying to figure it out before it hits.
  5. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Its all a rip-off...
  6. Steve Forbo

    Steve Forbo Pro Member

    And just to clarify more of the politics of it...
    In NY, you MUST be INSTALL certified on the jobs. For example, if you are on a big job, and you have a shop steward and men from the hall, you can be thrown off the job for not being INSTALL certified, even if you are a "shop" guy. They will call for a certified guy off the out of work list.
    It's a broken system, and another reason the unions are in failure mode in NY. Most "Shop Stewards" are simply horrible mechanics that can't hold a job with a shop, and rely on the hall to supply their work, and be their paid rat. They are human time clocks, that's all.

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