In search of resilient flooring

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Frankie321, Oct 1, 2014.

  1. Frankie321

    Frankie321 Member

    Hi, I’m looking for resilient flooring to replace the old ceramic tiles in our house.

    I’m getting older, and I find ceramic tiles very hard on the legs. We live in Brisbane, Australia,
    a warm climate, so we’d like to be able to walk barefoot or in light socks on the floor in the summer. Ceramic tile is too hard on our legs for that.

    The story so far.

    I had first looked at Gerflor Texline Comfort. This is a 5mm luxury vinyl tile, with a thick felt backing. It is the only vinyl tile I have seen that focuses on comfort (resilience) in its advertising. Unfortunately, it wasn’t in a light wood color that we liked (such as oak or willow). We are seeking a lighter, brighter wood for a sunny house (lots of glass to let the sun in and connect us to the garden).

    The flooring sales specialist our interior designed uses suggested:
    A wood look luxury vinyl tile that provides good wearability on an Instalay underlay (by Instafloor). His reasoning was the tile would provide the color, and the underlay the resilience. However, the Instalay seems very thin to me, and its flyer focuses on the benefit of acoustic and thermal insulation.

    A Tarkett representative recommended Tarkett ID 50 Excellence click in classic oak color, for its outstanding wearability and its more realistic wood look. She said there was no way to get comfort (resilience) without a problem of indentations (such as from a kitchen table) from normal residential tile, and her view was that normal residential tile’s wood look was a bit phoney except for the ID 50 Excellence style. However, the flooring specialist said there was a risk of a “slappy” sound because the ID 50 was a floating floor with its 4 way click together system, which could lead to slapping sounds as the firm vinyl tile hit the ceramic tile underneath.

    The only other option was a sports tile, such as Tarket Omnisport in classic oak. This tile is 5mm thick and designed to provide rebound (resilience) without indentation, plus excellent wearability. However, it seems a bit odd to put sports flooring in a house for an empty nest couple like us.

    All of them say I am odd to be concerned about resilience in flooring. They say their customers focus on wearability and price (and wood-look vinyl that costs half of what real wood flooring costs). They say this is why there is no easy solution. Ironically, comfort (resilience) is a selling point for carpets, but we’re told not to put carpets in the kitchen or meals room (the latter because the meal table has chairs that are constantly pushed in and out). Other brainstorming was to put any luxury vinyl tile on top of a rubber underlay, for the rubber underlay to provide the comfort. Another brainstorming idea was to give up on resilient vinyl flooring, and go for high quality look and durability—and use runner rugs for resilience in the walking paths in the house.

    Are there other modern vinyl flooring that delivers resilience (along the lines of Gerflor Texline Comfort)? There is Armstrong Cushionstep and Congoleum Airstep. Would Tarkett ID 50 Excellence click cause slappy sounds if on top of ceramic tile.

    Any comments or advice welcome!!

    Thanks.

    Frank
     
  2. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    What a coincidence!!??

    I worked with the Tarkett Omnisport flooring today in California. It's a middle school gym 12K square feet suffering from moisture problems. This is a 2 meter wide sheet flooring that is heat welded at the seams. My job was 12 years old, installed by others when the school was new. Evidently the concrete company failed to protect the slab from underground moisture. So eventually the adhesive fails, the vinyl shrinks and the heat welded seams burst open.

    In addition to the 5MM goods they make a 6.5 and 8.3MM gauge material also that's so heavy no adhesive is required. This is a beautiful product. The floor in pictures below was installed with adhesive.

    http://www.tarkettsportsindoor.com/en/
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Frankie321

    Frankie321 Member

    Thank you Incognito.

    I take your comment, including

    "they make a 6.5 and 8.3MM gauge material also that's so heavy no adhesive is required. This is a beautiful product."

    as a strong recommendation for Tarkett Omnisport for the home as well. It would deliver resilience, and as no adhesive is a nice benefit, it seems 6.5MM would be right for the home (with 8.3MM as unnecessarily heavy for the home). I assume that even with no adhesive (and therefore no off-gassing) it is heavy enough that there would be no slapping sounds when stepping on it.
     
  4. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Yeah, the areas of the gym that were not affected by the moisture problems in the concrete are performing very well. It's a very heavy duty product for your intentions and no doubt would handle everything you could throw at it and more.

    Just so you know any resilient material you may choose has a pretty intensive requirement for preparation and strict tolerances for moisture passing through the slab. Make that your FIRST concern and work from there.
     
  5. Frankie321

    Frankie321 Member

    Regarding preparation, Tarkett website says this:
    "Easy installation especially with GreenLay loose-lay installation for Omnisports Reference & Excel."

    Would Greenlay
    (http://www.tarkettsportsindoor.com/en/sports-flooring-guide/greenlay) be the way to go in the home for Reference (6.5MM) or is that unnecessary and lay the Reference onto the existing ceramic tiles (or should existing small square ceramic tiles, which have 5MM grout lines)?
     
  6. Frankie321

    Frankie321 Member

    Okay, spoke with a Tarkett Australia representative again, and they don't have Omnisport in stock here in Australia. (The small market problem--they custom order from Europe large lots such as for gymnasiums.)

    ANY COMMENTS ON THE TARKETT REPRESENTATIVE'S REASONING HERE
    She again recommends Tarkett ID 50 click as the best wood look, best wearing, and least expensive. It is a 4 way click lock floating vinyl plank. Lays directly on the old ceramic tile, no need to pull up the old tile. She claims it is unlikely to have a slappy sound when walking, even on top of ceramic tile, because it is heavy, 5MM, and has a fiberglass layer. She says it is same as Tarkett Permastone but in a wood look and sold through their commercial not residential arm. But I cannot find the US equivalent of Tarkett ID Excellence 50 click, ID Excellence 50 Click | Tarkett Professionals for Australia. It is a bit of problem in Australia (and other countries) that the manufacturers use different product names.
     
  7. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    The "click" vinyl systems are not cushioned as I understood you desired. I haven't handled any of those types of vinyl planks. For cushioned vinyl I'm only familiar with various sheet goods and primarily commercial products like Tarkett and Gerflor brands.

    You should shop around more locally to see what other stores carry in your location or more likely what materials they can order for you through their distributors.
     
  8. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

  9. Frankie321

    Frankie321 Member

    Thanks, Jon.
    Very confusing similar lines!:
    Gerflor Texline Comfort
    Gerflor Home Comfort
    Are these the same?
    BTW, I am assuming both would need the underlaying ceramic tile removed, and the surface screed? Are adhesive also necessary with these felt back tiles?
     
  10. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    No, The idea is you loose lay over the ceramic tiles. If this product which I think both are the same. The times I have laid the Gerflor loose laid I have just cut it in a fraction of an inch short so it lays flat. The times I have glued the vinyl to the subfloor it will show every imperfection even though the backing is thick. Here we use a concrete type product to smooth the ceramic tiles as long as the tiles a solid
     
  11. Frankie321

    Frankie321 Member

    Thanks again, Jon.
    As a fellow Australasian, is the Tarkett ID 50 Excellence Click, something you have heard of? I'm wondering what the equivalent Tarkett product in the USA or Europe.

    I can't find any reviews of ID 50 Excellence Click, or verification of the Tarkett Australia representative's claim that it is the same technology as Tarkett's highly rated Permastone but in a wood look.

    True this is not a comfort vinyl, but this is the other alternative we're considering, to use this for its better wearability and truer wood look, and then put rugs in the walking paths (such as in the center of the foyer) for some cushioning.
     
  12. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Sorry I can't help you there as I haven't had anything to do with these click products but I would guess the names would be the same world wide. Just imagine ordering a product name here and then its called something else in another country. Imagine what one could get :)
    As a PS How larger area are we talking about, house lot, kitchen, bath toilet?
     
  13. If you are looking for comfortable flooring that can be installed over ceramic tiles, a cork floating floor can be looked into. So long as the tiles are stable and relatively flat (no high-points at corners) a 1ft x 3ft plank should be able to be installed straight over top. Sadly my company does not service Australia, but most of our competitors (Torlys and Wicanders) certainly do.

    If the grout lines are too deep, you may have to add a bit of cementatious filler (to get a smoother surface) but I bet dollars to donoughts that will be needed with any form of vinyl...floating or other wise.

    It is an option...an outside option as the "wood look" would turn into "cork look" but the colour range (light oak) would certainly fit the bill.

    Just thinking outside the box here.
     
  14. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Cork flooring is COOL!

    I think it's a very viable option you ought to look at.
     
  15. The cushioning with cork is "built in". You don't have to worry about "underlay" and all that jazz. A floating floor can be put down just about anywhere (smooth and flat = 3mm floor deflection over 3ft). The 'slapping' shouldn't be much of a concern as the cork planks have a built-in underlayment.

    The "give" to cork actually comes in the reduction of vibration as you step on it as well as it's insulating value = warm in winter and cool in summer. Definately 'barefoot flooring'.

    It won't be cheap...but the level (commercial grade) of flooring your looking into at this point isn't cheap either.

    Torlys has a great set-up in Australia/New Zealand. Have a look into their product. I've heard that "CorkArt" also has reps down under. They don't have the selection of Torlys, but if "natural" oak is your colour range then they should be able to service you quite nicely.
     
  16. Frankie321

    Frankie321 Member

    Thanks for those recommendations to cork. Was a bit worried cork wouldn't last with meals rooms chairs being pulled in and out from the table often several times per day, but will have a look into it.
     
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