I got a little problem with a failed epoxy job getting new mosaic

Discussion in 'Ceramic and Stone Q&A' started by Tom Potter, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter I Support TFP

    I have a job coming up in a couple weeks that has kind have been a burr in my saddle.
    Its about 1000 sq ft of mosaic that i have to put in............. BUT, what's down now is the issue. It's a complete failure of an epoxy job. Theres spots where its coming out in 1'x1' pieces and some looks solid.
    I have a guy that does removals and grinding for me when needed but he's nowhere to be found right now. So to the rental store i go.
    Any thoughts on how to realistically take care of this? Keep in mind this is a small city and i dont have access to some equipment. The best i can find is in the attached pic. Also i can't use gas powered equipment. Its in the middle of a school.
    Screenshot_2017-11-06-16-19-42.png 20171031_140449.jpg 20171031_140442.jpg Glass half full, its only 1000 sq ft!
     
  2. epoxyman

    epoxyman Pro Member

    Get a 7” grinder for the edges and a 20-30” for the floor itself but the trick will be to use PCD diamond cup wheels
    If any of the epoxy is really stuck and the PCD doesn’t work hit it with a roofing torch it will make it pop off the floor.

    Ron
     
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  3. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Looks kinda thin and flaky, is it paint thickness? I agree with Ron on the grinder, the difficult part is the dust extractor.

    Some diamond blades work. What’s your budget?

    Tell em to throw that piece of shit Edco grinder out, it’s so 70’s
     
  4. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Even their turbo grinder Tmc-7? Is no good, I sold mine for 700$ it’s too slow.
     

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  5. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter I Support TFP

    Thanks ron, I was hoping to get a response out of you considering epoxy is your world.
    The grinder in my pic is about the best i can come up with at the moment. Ill have to see if it will take the pcd diamond cup wheels. Ihave a united rental in town I'm going to look into later.
     
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  6. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter I Support TFP

    The epoxy is thick. I would say a good 1/8". They just did a bad job and no prep. Obviously they didn't bother to attempt to grind the concrete before they poured. They went right over a painted floor and didn't even sweep. Theres one spot there's some change they went over. A couple penny's and a quarter.
    So im fairly confident that the epoxy is going to scrape right off. But we all know theres a good chance some will be stuck.
    As far as the machine goes, Thats it. I appreciate you taking the time to go to their site and checking their available machines. We have a united rental im checking later.
     
  7. epoxyman

    epoxyman Pro Member

  8. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    United is a little better, I see they have a Husqvarna PG280 and 450. They are somewhat insufficient but if they have the 280 with the 10” PCD inserts that would work. Then follow with a @20 grit. Their vacuum Edco? Forgot model number, I passed over their design but bid on about 4 or 5 to see their capabilities. If they rent Ermator vac an s-36 would work.

    Good description on what’s in place(thickness, contamination) you understand bond! Could’ve been moisture vapor in the popped spots. One reason I didn’t suggest scraper is you would still need to prep slab to receive thinset.

    Did a 200 ft removal yesterday of 3/4” stone over thinset, there was sheet vinyl down prior and the residue allowed 90% of the thinset to separate easily. We were done in 2.5 hrs.

    But thinking if it is 1/8” then scraping off first may be better than grinding through, then use diamond grinder to cut through surface to expose concrete.
    The scraper? Some equipment is too light to apply enough force to stay on slab and not slip to top and ride on epoxy. It’s all part of detailed evaluation, what to bring to battle/strategy.

    An Onfloor 16” grinder may work with the carbide chips, all depends on the bond strength.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  9. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter I Support TFP

    Thanks guys for all the research, tips, and info. It's a great thing to be able to get questions answered in a very short time.
    I lucked out today while making calls and asking favors to friends. I ended up getting in contact with a guy that is completely set up for concrete grinding/ polishing. We went to look at it and he's going to take care of it for me. Epoxy out and grind concrete to my liking.
    Like i said earlier, i usually have a guy that does these for me. Apparently he has gone awol and nobody knows where. Its like the song "don't know what you got till it's gone". I'm glad i run into this guy though!
    He has the equipment to do it wet or dry. My other guy only did them dry with dust collection. That brings up another question. Any reason to not do it wet? I can see moisture in the slab being an issue if it had to be installed the next day or two. But i wont be in to tile for a good 3-4 weeks after he does his thing. He seems to prefer wet grinding (im guessing because he dont want to lug around dust containment equipment?). Anyways if it's not an issue then i would rather not make it one. I can really use this guy on future jobs.
     
  10. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Wet is perfect for thinset called SSD, saturation surface dry, it doesn’t rob the thinset of water to allow the thinset to bond to tile and cure slowly. Not sure it’s good for any other situation for example hardwood,epoxy,etc.

    I’d rather not run into these removals, they weld to the slab.

    What is SSD? | Concrete Waterproofing
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
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  11. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    I use to do this in large commercial applications before patching. Take a towell attached to a push broom and well, get that floor wet. Not saturated like mentioned but good and wet. Bonded better and kept it flowing longer, makes sense to me.
     
  12. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Same concept for adhesive, the dust doesn’t ball it up and clog the trowel. I use to pour small amounts out of the bucket at a time than move around large quantities to be moved many feet away.
     
  13. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'm confused how that is the answer for Tom and wet grinding vs dry grinding. :confused:
     
  14. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Tom already found his answer by having someone do the grinding for him, I personally wouldn’t wet grind, I hate the slurry. I’d probably attack it differently but not onsite and my equipment is different as everyone has their equip they use for their situations. Wouldn’t make a difference with the timeframe over a week, but if it were next day then wet would be fine as long as there were no slurry dust residue otherwise it’s a bondbreaker.

    Slabs absorb the moisture out of thinsets, adhesives,etc. that is placed in the materials as a vehicle to disperse/spread them, when the slab is wet, the material maintains its viscosity.

    After we dry grind there is a film still after vacuuming, partly because the slabs here are soft. I was looking into water scrubbers to remove this residue, hardwood was going down usually afterward so I never felt comfortable adding water to slab.

    Wet vs Dry grinding, several reasons for it, mostly due to the manufacturer of the diamonds, how bout in place granite countertop edge profile touch up, was done wet, messy, voila out comes a dry polishing system. Dust deadly, voila dust extractors. Some diamonds in concrete floor polishing perform better wet, just a matter of time when cost will outweigh the method. I always go back to an experience of a concrete polisher having 2 guys polish a commercial site for several days at 2$ a ft, his last steps were wet grinding/polishing, just a plain mess and slow, the amount of time they spent did not match up to the price he charged. Couple years prior he was shop vacuuming with antiquated equipment, when I visited his shop to rent an autoscrubber from him he had several hundreds of thousands in grinding equipment and was polishing O’Reillys auto parts. Haven’t been to his shop in a few years. New O’Reillys here in town they were building he wasn’t the polisher, that was year ago. I declined to use the autoscrubber from him, it was neglected, Sunbelt Rentals wanted a few hundred a day for a large one and inconveniently located from jobsite.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  15. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter I Support TFP

    Thanks again guy's.
    Kind of had a brain fart there and wasn't thinking that im putting tile down. Im not too concerned about the moisture.
    I'm happy i got myself another outfit to do this part of job's for me. Definitely makes life easier on me. It also made me realize the lack of services in my area. I might be looking into some equipment in the near future.
     
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  16. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    We all have our talents.
     
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