High End Replacement Carpet

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by SteveR, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. SteveR

    SteveR New Member

    I'm glad I found your forum on the internet.

    I will be replacing a 25 year old carpet. This carpet has held up extraordinarily well, but needs to be replaced due to sun fading. It is on a portion of the second floor of my New England country farm home (which is actually of very modern design) and covers about 1500 square feet of 3 rooms, a long hallway, and a staircase. My family has two teenagers, but no indoors four legged pets and the rule is "shoes off in the house." The previous carpet was supposed to be the "best you could buy" in high end nylon 25 years ago, unfortunately I do not recall the brand as I trusted a friend who owned a carpeting store. The trust was well placed, but she has since passed away.

    I am currently looking at Fabrica Seduction in the color Ironstone. This color is a dark grey, close to the current carpet, and I am told it is referred to as a "plush velvet". Other carpets that we have looked at appear to be more shaggy or fluffy, but I do not believe that they will wear as well. We have been quite comfortable with our current similar carpet and have been told that this is because of the high end carpet pad which is below it.

    Could the forum please comment on Fabrica Seduction as a choice, any possible competitors I should look at, and what high quality carpet pad would be appropriate. Of course, I would welcome any and all comments, including those saying that I am on the completely wrong track and should consider something else. Thank you!
  2. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    The Fabrica website shows no Ironstone, but has an Iron Gate: Fabrica Carpet & Rugs - Seduction - Iron Gate Or maybe you meant Stepping Stone?

    Fabrica Seduction Specifications

    Looks like a very nice piece of goods to me. It doesn't have an actual velvet finish, but is a compact (dense) carpet that may show footprints and vacuum marks, but will hold up well for many years. A dense carpet cushion will help maintain its appearance and durability. The cushion should be no thicker than 7/16". Different types of padding have different weight/density ratings. Bonded Prime Urethane cushion ("rebond") should be 8-10# density. Slab rubber pad has a slightly different feel and comes in ounces, like 100-120oz. I've been away from retail for too long to make any specific recommendations.

  3. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    The term velvet, here, is referring to the weave. A vegetarian is the simplest weave among when carpets. Use a felt cushion under all woven carpets unless you want a "squishy" feel. Then one could double stick the carpet over slab rubber or a memory foam cushion such as healthier choice Foundations.

    Healthier Choice - Foundation
  4. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Nate, isn't that a tufted carpet with a primary and secondary backing system?
  5. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    You are right Jim. I made an assumption when I should have clicked on your links. Sorry :eek:
  6. SteveR

    SteveR New Member

    Jim, you are right. I should have said "Iron Gate". I appreciate your saying that it is a nice piece of goods. Hopefully someone else can suggest some similar competition to it. Could you explain what you mean that "it doesn't have an actual velvet finish"? Is that good or bad? I had been told that it was a plush velvet. Is there anything else that I should know or be looking for in this type of carpet? Our current carpet does show vacuum marks, so I have grown accustomed to that (although the wife less so).

    For both Jim and Nate, I am still unclear as to the padding. Jim mentioned the different feel between rebond and slab. What type of difference would that be? Nate mentioned memory foam cushion and I was recently told by a salesperson that was the current "top of the line", although it was unclear why. I assume that padding both contributes to a better carpet feel as well as longer carpet life. Is there a pad which would do both for this type of carpet?

    Again thank you for your advice so far.
  7. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I think the person who told you it was a plush velvet doesn't really know what a velvet plush is. To be candid, I have very little personal experience with this type of finish. Velvets have a fine denier yarn with fewer twists than the average carpet, but also have a tight density - more yarns per square inch. It is hard to see individual tufts of yarn in a velvet finish.

    What you have in the Fabrica Seduction is a saxony finish. It's still a tight density, but has more twists in a coarser fiber and individual tufts are somewhat easy to see. Both will show footprints and vacuum marks, but the velvets show much more. There's also the chance, slim as it may be, that a velvet will "pool" or "watermark" - it's a shading phenomena that happens to velvets than any other type of carpet finish. It is not considered a defect, but it sure looks like one. Luckily, it's a rare occurrence.

    I'm not a fan of the feel of memory foam. It's subjective, of course. I like a good rebond and would probably like a 7/16", 8# rebond under this carpet. But if money was no object, I might go for the slab rubber in a 3/8", 100oz. I'm not a guy who lays on the carpet, I only walk on it. Try to get your dealer to unroll about 8' of similar density carpet and put some of his different pads (they come in either 6' or 4.5' widths) under it so you can see how it walks and feels. I never liked using small carpet and pad samples for this because they don't give an accurate feel that small.

  8. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Steve, where in New England is your country farm home?

    Because you asked for opinions and I am the worlds leading expert on MY opinion, I'll share this. A good quality cushion is essential to the long term success of any carpet. But beware of the hype and sensationalism used by marketing departments. Cushion only gets so good and then the rest is imaginary fluff.

    Fabrica is a good brand and they make a good product. Especially their nylon products. But quality for price, they're not a great value. Again, this is my opinion. Because once you move into the $7 - $9 per sq.ft. for broadloom nylon, wool becomes a better values at about the same price point. If you interested in considering other options, I would encourage you to look into the woven wools from Karastan / Helios ((not the tufted nylon products because they're crap with a fancy label, but still crap.)).

    Hope this helps!

    With kindest regards,

    David Hunt
    General Partner
    Vermont Custom Rug Company
  9. JPfloor

    JPfloor Pro Member

    I agree, if you're in the high end price range, the luxury of wool is hard to surpass...:)
  10. SteveR

    SteveR New Member

    Jim, thanks for the explanation of velvet, push, and Saxony. Out of curiosity I looked more closely at the large sample that I have. The carpet is bout 1/2" high and each tuft seems to have about four twists. Thanks also for the information on pad materials. From what I have read along with your recommendation, I will probably go with the 7/16" 8# rebond (one dealer is offering 7/16" 9# which might also be attractive).

    Thank you David (and also JP in seconding him) for recommending that I look at wool. I had not thought of that at all (for whatever reason) and it turns out that of the two dealers with whom I have been working, one handles Karastan and the other Helios. Looking on-line, dark grays (as opposed to light ones) seem to be a bit sparse in wool, but I found one example for each: Woolcheck Classics from Karastan and Tilliard from Helios. I will get quotes on these within the next few days. Also, our country farm home is in eastern Connecticut (far from the big cities).

    Once again, I appreciate your shared experience.
  11. SteveR

    SteveR New Member

    Back again after a few family emergencies. We got samples of the Karastan woven wools, but all except for me did not care for the look (I know, I know, but they spend time in the house too….). The preference is for a tufted rather than a woven carpet. I did bring in some Karastan non-wool (smartstrand) tufted, but no one liked those.

    Additionally, the current carpet has not really “uglied” out so much as (in many areas) “faded” out. The home is of modern construction with large amounts of glass and skylights. While I can hardly complain about 25 years of carpet service, I am told that wool is more prone to fading in intense sun as compared to nylon. Also, we are definitely looking for a quite dark gray (charcoal or that range). If the fading issue is not so, then I might look for some wool in the tufted type cut pile, but I have only looked on-line for such and found few in dark gray; J. Mish seems likely, but I thought that I would return to you experts prior to going further or getting more samples.

    It seems that what we want is what Fabrica calls a “cut pile plush”. I have not found anything comparable to Fabrica in that type and therefore unless educated otherwise I would likely buy Fabrica. I have gotten 12” x 18” sample that I have placed at various times in various rooms. Specifically, “Seduction” (Iron Gate), “St. Croix” (Boardwalk), and “Captiva” (Boardwalk also). Despite, their differing appearances on-line, the three colors are extremely similar. St. Croix and Captiva are made with Tactesse, while Seduction is from TruSoft. Captiva appears to be about 3/8” high, while the other two are ½”.
    The “feel” of the Seduction TruSoft is significantly better than the other two. I know that we don’t walk on our hands, but in fact (because shoes are banned from the upper house floor) we do mostly walk barefoot there. Therefore this is a real factor. The choice would thus seem to be simple (buy the Seduction/TruSoft), were it not for the footprint/vacuum mark factor. We are quite used to our current carpet having vacuum marks and do not mind this. However the Seduction/TruSoft seems to be much more noticeable than the others, with the marks appearing very light gray (almost white) as contrasted with the others that have more “normal” appearing color differences due to footprints and vacuum marks. The thinner Captiva does seem to show marks more readily than the thicker St. Croix.
    Does TruSoft show more marked color differences in vacuum marks? Or is it something else; in which case I have not looked at Fabrica's "Cotton Club" which is an even heavier TruSoft or Accolade? Are there any other factors that I should consider when comparing these carpets? Is my narrowing in on Fabrica reasonable/appropriate, or are there other manufacturers of this carpet type and quality whom I should consider. Help!
  12. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    It's been my experience, when color is priority number one, Masland Carpets will have the color your looking for.

    Best of Luck

  13. JPfloor

    JPfloor Pro Member

    All Fabrica lines are of high quality. It is an excellent choice. If you found one you and your family like you should buy it. It will serve you well for many years.
  14. Stick

    Stick Member

    After doing a lot of research and reading we also thought Fabrica was the way to go....turned out it was a very bad experience for us.
    We went with the Fabrica Cotton Club and the sample pcs. were very nice. We bought the carpet at the biggest Midwest furniture store and everything went very well until the day they came to install our carpet. The salesman had cut off a pc. of the actual store sample and told us to make sure the carpet they brought, was correct color and density.

    We were shocked to find out the face weight was not EVEN close to what we had in our hand. We declined the carpet and the installers left. After many phone calls to the dealer, Fabrica rep, and even tried to call Fabrica, but all they said was "talk to your dealer" The dealer agreed with us completely and the Fabrica rep even checked to see if there was another roll at Fabrica. After 4 days of going nowhere we decided to go with Masland brand....apparently Fabrica samples are not as good as what you get. AND, don't start on blossoming etc. this carpet was not even close except for the color, which was Dolphin by the way.

    So here we are with our whole upstairs tore up for another 4 weeks until our new selection comes in. We picked out Masland's Shangra La Too as our new selection and the dealer gave us the upgrade for all our trouble.

    So for any new carpet buyers beware of the Fabrica Cotton club !!
  15. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    I am truly sorry for the negative experience. You do know Fabrica and Masland are two brands owned, operated, managed and distributed by the same company, the Dixie Group.

    This is just my opinion, but what I found most troubling in the story is "the salesman had cut off a pc. of the actual store sample and told us to make sure the carpet they brought, was correct color and density". The only reason I can imagine a salesman doing this is if they know this is a regular problem and if it is a regular problem, the problem is with the store regularly engaging in bait and switch practices.

    Was the carpet in plastic with the manufactures tag/label?

    As a business owner with over 30 years in the trade, I have never had material come through not as ordered. Defective, yes. Slightly off shade, yes. But different enough to not feel like the same carpet, never. I won't drift into the legalities of purchase contracts between the manufacture and retailer, but I will say this; if there's something wonky going on, the wonkiness is with the retailer, not the manufacture. Which is why the manufacture keeps sending you back to retailer. BTW, the salesman was doing you a huge favor by providing a cutting.

    Sorry I don't have better thoughts to share but I'm betting this isn't coming as a BIG SHOCK to you as you're probably thinking something is wonky and just haven't been able to identify it?

    With kindest regards,

    David Hunt
    General Partner
    Vermont Custom Rug
  16. Stick

    Stick Member

    The carpet was not in plastic but came in 3 rolls, cut for each room. They had tags on them that matched the Fabrica's style number and color number, not sure if that was NFM's tag or Fabrica's. I figure it would ship from Fabrica in one roll and the dealer would cut it for each room specs, maybe I assumed wrong. I did read that Masland belongs to the Dixie group, but they are 2 different mills. All we really wanted was a good carpet as we are getting to old to replace carpet every 10 years. Now, we are here sitting watching TV on our new pad (Healthy Choice), which I might add we are happy with that part of the deal. I will give my final update to our ordeal once the new carpet arrives and is installed. BTW I asked the salesman for a pc. of the sample as I was concerned about getting what I had purchased, after reading about all the bait & switch scams. Thanks for your input on this !
  17. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    Marland makes a tough carpet. Look for a power stretcher on the day of the install.
  18. Stick

    Stick Member

    That was one of my main requests, and after seeing how thick the backing is on this Shangri La Too carpet I would think it would be a necessity.
  19. Stick

    Stick Member

    It has been a few months since we had our carpet finally installed and I wanted to post a final follow up. As stated earlier we ended up going with the Masland Shangri La Too. Let me begin by giving Masland a big thumbs up. The sample they sent us was EXACTLY what showed up at our door. We absolutely love this carpet and the installers did a super job. After all we went through with the dealer, they did make it right. They were also frustrated with Fabrica. When we tried to call Fabrica they were NO HELP at all. Masland were just the opposite and went out of there way sending us the sample and no surprises.

    Thanks for all the help here on the forum and I hope this topic gives future buyers some heads up.
  20. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Reminds me of the other day when we went to Publix supermarket, everyone was so nice and helpful, the wife and I commented about it leaving in the parking lot. It was a "what the hell just happened" moment for me. I don't shop Walmart but Winn Dixie and Target for groceries are just so so.

    I started wondering how do you hire people like that(the Publix happy ones)

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