Help: Commercial Carpet Seams are Frizzing

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by TwoStar, May 3, 2010.

  1. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    You asked about the white thread or chain stitch on woven interlock. If you bend the carpet pretty tight you will see a chain stitch in between the yarns. That is the stitch you want to leave if possible. I had not heard it before but that is probably why Peter made the comment of cutting it with a shears. Bend it over and follow the line. I have never done that to be honest.
    Also when working with any piece of carpet familiarize yourself to it. Bend it, fold it, pull a yarn see how that carpet is made and works. I went to a class that Dobby put on once it was on wovens and he gave each of a piece of carpet and a finish nail, a lot of carpet pieces actually. He told us to take this nail and start picking at the backing of the carpet and follow each and every thread and see how it works and its place in the system. You would be amazed at what you learn just sitting and dissecting the piece of carpet.

    Daris
     
  2. TwoStar

    TwoStar Maybe Three

    good advice, thanks. My wife is gonna love this...a basket of random carpet pieces by the couch waiting for a commercial to come on so I can bend, shred, and experiment with them.
     
  3. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Don't forget to clean up the scraps before you go to bed!!

    (Don't ask how I know)






    It has to do with popcorn, peanuts and beer!!
     
  4. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    One other thought, how many rows in from the first row are you usually making your seams at? Alot of carpets you need to cut in at least an inch...I'm sure you know this, but I'm just trying to figure out your problem
     
  5. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    You mention shears and Dobby. I recall one of his posts he he stated how important a tool hi shears were (he also said he had several different shears). while they certainly can be a PITA, they are indispensable on certain goods.

    Your advice on dissecting different weaves is great. Having some construction drawing while doing so is a very beneficial aid. I could probably dig a few up if anyone is interested. I imagine Daris and Roland have more than a few of these as well.
     
  6. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I do have pictures or drawings and will find a way to get them posted.

    Daris
     
  7. Sean Moore

    Sean Moore Pro Member

    Lots of opinions in this thread too. Didn't read them all. Here are the basics, OP:

    1) Every seam needs scissors. Hell, even if it's just to brush the nap back and forth to verify there aren't any strings. Use scissors.

    2) direct glue comes in two flavors, row cut and double cut. When you row cut you need to ensure you're not fraying the yarn by cutting too close to the row, don't be afraid to leave a little backing in there...

    2a) use a crab stretcher when you row cut, it's this thing: roberts mini stretcher - Google Product Search

    it will make your gluedown life so much easier you won't know how you got by without it. You will also learn to fix patterns with that single tool and a bag of 1in concrete nails.

    3) Seal it with your "honey". Put enough on so that occasionally you have to use cleaner. If you never get any up to the surface you're probably not using enough. If you have to clean the whole seam you're using way too much.

    3a) Don't leave the sealer sitting there, this is an adhesive that needs to be worked wet. I'm comfortable with 30ft seams in patterned goods but I'm pretty quick with that crab stretcher.

    4) In patterned goods don't expect the sealer to stay on the seam, when you move the pattern around the sealer is going to be on the floor, not on the carpet. You are going to have to replace the honey.

    5) On non patterend double-cut goods use a "glass cutter":
    National 575 Commercial Seam Cutter
    (I'm not affiliated, just the first one that came up) You're going to use *sharp* HD utility blades in it, don't extend the row following "guides" and set it to perfectly cut through two layers with scraps. Seal the poo out of the seam (occasionally having to wipe sealer off the top) and take your scissors to it. Overlap these seams 3 inches and use a serpentine cut with your glass cutter.

    edit: Run a sharp utility blade down these entire seams in your knife when you cut the ends. Trust me on that one, there WILL be spots your glass cutter doesn't completely cut.

    6) Roll all direct glue seams with a star roller, some guys use the single axle ones but the boxed in 3in wide three axle roller is my all time favorite.

    7) (and this is just opinion) Learn how to use an awl to curve the carpet so when you put the dry shot into the wet shot it really gets down into that sealer... no glue on the fingers and you have awl in one hand and tractor in the other hand. I made my awl out of an old phillips screwdriver because the handle fit my hand better than the little wooden handles they sell at the stores.

    No one will complain about your seams. GL man, commercial rug isn't the "easy" most of those old dudes think it is.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2010
  8. TwoStar

    TwoStar Maybe Three

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2013
  9. strip buster

    strip buster my way is the best way. Charter Member

    over here Elmer, always fighting time,quicker into adhesive the better.
     
  10. strip buster

    strip buster my way is the best way. Charter Member

    Kyle,main backings here are hessian,action and felt(think u guys call it soft)but all or most adhesives here are fast setting. so it's always a race to grt it in as quick as possible
     
  11. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member

    Hey, since we are re-visiting this post on ' Frizzing seams ' or shall I say the lack of frizzing, due to proper education from Sean :yesss: :yesss: I couldn't believe we didn't have any pictures to demonstrate the nastiness that can
    completely ruin a job......... So, I decided to add a few.

    I did this repair recently in a cross-over stitch ( is that the proper terminology ? ) loop pile commercial carpet, direct glue method and obviously the seam edges where trimmed and sealed poorly.

    Pictures to follow on my next post


    Mike
     
  12. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member

    Seam Frizzing Repair

    Hey, not the best quality of photo's or even the repair, but better than nothing.

    Luck had it, I was able to safely peel back the carpet, cut away the Frizzing
    or loose yarns, seal edges with latex, let it dry, then Re-glue and Crab stretch
    together.

    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Mike you cheated I thought you brought it all back together but you set a patch.;)
    Looks good by the way.

    :old:

    Daris
     
  14. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    I feel like I have just the opposite problem...probably because I'm on the other side of the earth. Although the humidity is extremely low here...
     
  15. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member


    Thanks Daris, actually that was the original seam lay-out :eek: Not a good
    idea having two seams so close together :ohno:

    I trimmed both frizzing edges and pulled the long side appx. 1/8 to 1/4 '' to
    butt them together.

    Mike
     
  16. Floored by Newman

    Floored by Newman Floored by Newman

    No one has mentioned D-815 as a honey? No rush with this stuff and its good! Sealing and trimming is the most critical as if you don't trim well what happens???? I like to overlap seams an 1/8 " just to ensure when bonding the two, both sides get love! Thing that gets me is how many manufactures honor such a good Product as D-815?
     
  17. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    The problem with D-815 is it's short open time (10 min.)

    http://www.bostik-us.com/sites/default/files/D815.pdf

    On a long seam and a small crew by the time you seal a 50' seam, lay the carpet in, and maybe have to make an adjustment, then start to work the seam, your 10 minutes are long gone. If you start at one end, by the time you get to the other end of the seam it is dry and one side of the seam gets NO transfer of sealer. (please don't try to argue this point as I have documented it on several ocassions)!:yesss: One side of the seam will lift up easilywith an awl and the other side is perfectly sealed to the floor, with -0- transfer between the two sides.

    The old fashioned "honey" sealer has a much longer open time, but it can still dry up on ya. Or soak into the edge if it has a dry open edge.
     
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