Help: Commercial Carpet Seams are Frizzing

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by TwoStar, May 3, 2010.

  1. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    Good question, Al. I think everyone has head seam problems on some carpets.
     
  2. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

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    Daris is right on. It's about an 1/8" bead of honey right into the seam. When you push the other side in tight both of them are well coated. So timing is an issue. I've never seen one of my seams unravel or have any complaints for that matter----ZERO. If I can't cut both sides of the seam on a row and butt them then I usually prefer to trace cut or double cut "wet" so that when I do seam the seam I curl the top piece in trapping any "frizzed" yarn directly into the sealer. By the time I kick the seam tight and tractor or press it into the glue firmly there's simply no way for any loose yarn or split loops to get away from either the mulit-purpose or the seam sealer. I would say I need to use a scissors on less than 20% of glue down jobs at all and even then it's typically only on the cross seams or a few loose ends here and there.

    The general rule as to how much sealer you should be using is that you should put as large a bead as you can so that none comes up to the surface yarn when you're all done. I don't like to use too much cleaner/solvent either even when wet cutting.
     
  3. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

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    Yup, some carpets simply aren't going to give you that "perfect" cross seam no matter how good you are.
     
  4. getoverit

    getoverit Pro Member

    What Daris and Brian said!!!!!I always sealed my seams and very rarely had frizzing problems. When I did it was usually my fault for "Too little sealer" or cutting into the nap.
     
  5. Curt Durand

    Curt Durand Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Published

    Once again I agree with Chris. Never said not to seam seal. Always used commercial seam sealer on commercial jobs and some residential jobs.
     
  6. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

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    How would you use commercial seam sealer on a residential job?
     
  7. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton Senior Member Published

    Probably some of those older resi glue downs.
     
  8. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    Universal sealers have been around for quite some time.

    Roberts makes one. 8015 solvent free. Used on glue downs as well as stretch in.
    Parabond also makes one. M-4263 also solvent free.

    Not saying it is right, but I have found that it works for me.

    I'm still waiting on Hollywood to enter into this about Daris's comment that latex will not hold up to commercial cleaning. I'll send him a text to get him here.
     
  9. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor Senior Member

    Parabond makes a good sealer, used it for a long time. I would concur with Daris' method of sealing a seam. Never had problems, only ever have to scissor an end seam, which I feel is acceptable and neccesary.
     
  10. hollywood

    hollywood Pro Member

    i'm back. Heard that steam cleaning will affect the latex in the seams. it could if it is a bad tech using a water hose. commercial and resisdential have various face yarns so you clean to the correct face yarn, besides thier is latex bonded to the secondary and primary backings. And proper cleaning techniques will not effect the latex. Even if you run temps in the 200's by the time it goes thru the hose , jets , atomizes in the air the temp will drop about 20 to 40 degrees.
     
  11. Jackreed

    Jackreed jackreed Charter Member

    Just wondering is it poosible you are row cutting to close to the row. Causing them to pop out. By frizing do you mean a whole yarn is poping out or the top of the loop is frizzing? If you trim with a sissors that loop will friz where you cut it. I've found it's best to stick it down into the seam so it makes contact with the sealer. When you say frizzing is something being slid over the seams causing them to look frizzy.
     
  12. Barry Carlton

    Barry Carlton Senior Member Published

    Could it be the trimmer blade is too close to the row thereby 'frizzing' it?
     
  13. Jackreed

    Jackreed jackreed Charter Member

    That was my first thoght. I've had it happen on comercial carpet where the rows are very close together.
     
  14. Curt Durand

    Curt Durand Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Published

    There have been jobs in residential homes which had direct glued "commercial" carpet installed in the basements or on raised home theatre stadium seating risers. Not all carpets installed in residential settings are saxonies, velvets or shags. Quite a few older homes have a low pile height level loop (commercial) carpet installed. Remember carpeting a "coal room" once which had sloping floors draining towards a center "shovel rest" and needed sealing of all four radial seams.
     
  15. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    The latex in the backing and the latex in seam sealing are different. One is SBR [styrene butadiene rubber and the other more pure without the additives.]
    The chemicals in the steam cleaning will turn seaming latex slimy. On commercial where it is cleaned sometimes monthly it won't hold up to the chemicals.
    I apologize for not even thinking about the acrylic sealers[ Elmer's Glue type].
    Now I have seen guys use the honey type sealers on stretch in but it sure makes a mess on the iron. But it worked.

    Daris
     
  16. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Maybe he is over tractoring the seams with the star tooth. It can be done with alot of tractoring on some carpets. Maybe use a smooth roller and see if it helps. Several of us here are hot glueing our edges on stretch-in instead of latex. Its quicker and stronger. Maybe he is rowing on a bevel instead of straight up and down. Or too close like has been said.
     
  17. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Having been responsible for millions (yes, literally!) of yards of carpet installed direct glue down, IMHO, it is overkill to seal both edges. We had never experienced a DG seam failure due to a sealer issue in my 25+ years. Have had other issues that manifested in seams shrinking, but never was sealer (or more accurately, lack thereof) being contributory.

    This said, I will emphatically caution that open times on the adhesive must be very closely monitored.

    We always used smooth hand rollers immediately followed by appropriate weight regular rollers. It is near impossible to roll direct glue too much.

    We did not used Roberts honey often- primarily Henry's 246.
     
  18. TwoStar

    TwoStar Maybe Three

    You might be onto something there. I switch the blade to the closer side of the cut, y'know? But then again, the carpets are usually Ravelgard, and other crossweave stuff so the yarns should be "protected", right? I feel that my cuts are clean. They shouldn't fray, friz, whatever on their own. I know I am being argumentative and the ideas and information in this discussion are food for thought. I can't wait to do my next commercial carpet job to inspect things a little closer.
     
  19. Chris Mha

    Chris Mha Charter Member Senior Member

    Why wait? Go get some commercial carpet remnants and play with it at home to try and figure out what the problem might be. Try switching the blade.
     
  20. TwoStar

    TwoStar Maybe Three

    Yer right! Why wait? Thanks for the kick in the a**. The only thing is that the spacing won't show on small pieces, will it? Oh well, I will give it a try.
     
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