Help! Adhesive not drying and getting EVERYWHERE!

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Kate, May 30, 2013.

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  1. Kate

    Kate New Member

    I was sold Roberts 2057 (vinyl composition tile adhesive) to use in addition to the Armstrong self stick tiles. (This is on top of a vinyl floor treated w/embosser first). It was applied w/notched trowel.

    Now, after five days, I still have small bits oozing up. Yes, apparently, I used too much! One person told me I should have used 2001, not 2057 and that it will never dry. There are parts of the floor that seem solid.

    Do I really have to start over again!??! Yikes!!! Does this need to be ripped up??

    Thanks so much for your expertise!!

    Kate
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  2. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Did you follow the instructions for this product? There is no official recommended trowel size for installing self-stick tile with this adhesive, but because the tile already has adhesive on it, the smallest toothed trowel should have been used. Some pro installers will also use only the flat side of a trowel or even a smooth paint roller.

    No matter what method you use to apply the adhesive, the next part is critical:

    If you didn't allow the adhesive to turn clear and tack up properly before covering it with the tile, you will prevent the adhesive from curing. Ooze city. In that case, you have no other alternative but to remove the tile and the adhesive and start over.

    Jim
     
  3. Grant H

    Grant H I'd rather be patting my dog.

    From the downloadable spec sheet...

    Apply Adhesive:
    • Apply Roberts 2057 adhesive evenly to the substrate according to industry standards or as recommended by the flooring manufacturer using a Roberts (E1) trowel.
    Install Flooring:
    • Set the tile into the adhesive when it has completely dried and become tacky to the touch, but no longer has the ability to transfer to the
    tile backing. DO NOT INSTALL TILE UNTIL ALL MOISTURE IS COMPLETELY EVAPORATED.


    sounds like a redo sorry.
     
  4. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    Chances are you put the tiles in while the adhesive was still wet. It needs to be tacky to the point that you can touch it and it does not transfer to your finger. If it were done properly I don't see how you could have oozing issues. And the sales person was right, that will most likely remain wet for a very long time.

    DO NOT USE Roberts 2001. That is the completely WRONG adhesive for this application. The 2057 is just fine when done properly.

    The flat side of a trowel would work just fine to put down the 2057, and what this is doing is priming the floor and giving you a dust free surface to stick the tiles to. The combination of the 2057's tackiness and the glue on the peel-n-stick tiles should keep them in place.

    You are going to have to decide whether or not you are going to re-do this, but it sounds like you need to. When that point comes, tear up a couple of tiles and post back on here what you found underneath (wet or dry etc) and we'll help give you advice from there.
     
  5. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    You have a vinyl sandwich with FRESH glue in the middle. I don't see how it could possible ever dry now. No air can get to it besides some minimal amount through the tile seams.

    Sorry Kate. This is a do over. I'm just not sure whether you can salvage some of the tiles. It depends on if they are bonding (stuck) or really just laying there over a film of oozing wet glue.

    When you peel back the tiles put the glue side to the glue side for a minute. You can stack a few dozen like that. Work backwards and get the tiles out of the area ASAP. It would be helpful to have a second pair of hand to carry them off and out of the way AND get started cleaning them us as best as possible whilst you continue demo and deal with the mess on the floor. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE because now with air that glue WILL dry and both the substrate and the tiles will be a horror story.

    I'm not 100% certain they are trash. You might be able to gently scrape off the wet glue one at a time with a 6" putty knife wiping any goobers with a damp rag so the adhesive is MOSTLY gone but more important FLAT. The edges of the tile will have to be clean. Then let those tiles dry. COMPLETELY DRY.

    As soon as possible when the tiles are lifted try to paint roll over the fresh glue left on the floor. AGAIN the goal is to get the surface dead FLAT so there's no lumps. And again this glue also needs to be COMPLETELY DRY. I'm pretty sure you will be able to lay over this surface with new tiles or if your tile demo was pretty easy you might MIRACULOUSLY be able to re-use the tiles. I'd bet against it but then again I'm a pessimist. Doesn't mean I don't hope for the best.

    Good luck.
     
  6. Kate

    Kate New Member

    You are all so great to write back. I really had hoped I could have gotten a 2 out of 3 for keeping it!

    So, I took it all up and actually used a tile ripper to remove everything to the subfloor. Messy, but all the glue is gone!

    Could I impose for your recommendations on how to proceed? I love my black and white armstrong tiles. Should I just paint a floor primer on the plywood and then stick away?

    You all rock, by the way.

    Kate

    PS for what it's worth, there was wet, wet, wet glue under there! I used way too much and didn't let dry. Now, I scraped off most of the felt backing from the original linoleum. I'm going to sand the plywood w/an orbital sander about 60 grit. Thanks again. Kate
     
  7. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    ***********************
    Yeah, so long as that's not an asbestos based felt you NEED to sand it off.

    There's nothing wrong with using the prescribed primer. Yeah, most of them are liquid and designed to be painted with rollers or brushes. We pros only use the VCT clear thin spread and trowels because that's OUR LIFE. We spread glue with a trowel. I don't have to go buy the paint roller sleeve and chances are we've got a pail of glue hanging out anyways. Whatever works, right?

    Don't forget! That primer also need to dry completely as well. I'm glad you got all that mess up and now have a fresh start. Don't think anyone here hasn't screwed up not only flooring jobs which are our bread and butter but DIY home remodels as well. Well, I'm talking about all those other guys. I'm an elite installer who never made a mistake. (G)

    You got to lose to know how to win.
     
  8. david jewell 1

    david jewell 1 Pro Member


    Hard to say was the plywood damaged or gouged? Peel and stick are always tricky to work with. One thing for sure I would glue em down no matter what those buggers always seperate! Just a tip let the glue dry and take your time ok! Patience is a factor when installing flooring remember you are not going to change floors every week. Good luck!
     
  9. Kate

    Kate New Member

    Incognito, you are cracking me up! Thanks for the encouragement. I had the base cabinets installed and leveled when I realized this could not go on.

    So if I roll on a primer, should I still use a glue with a trowel? I read of someone who just did a dab of liquid nails in the corners to keep them from lifting. I do want to do a good job, but I'm a bit reticent right now of that adhesive!!

    The plywood is in good shape (thankfully). It's not like glass, but any means, but it's not rotted or gouged out by the tile ripper.

    Thanks,
    Kate
     
  10. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    Honestly my two cents worth................. or 1/2 cents worth :cool: You would have been fine with just rolling on a light coat of adhesive with a paint roller and letting it dry.

    Remember the word dry! or tacky!


    You could have spread that floor, went to lunch, gone shopping, went to dinner and them went to a movie and then installed it and everything would have been fine.

    Now if it was a double feature movie that would have been a different story ;)
     
  11. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    ********************
    Any and all gouges, cracks or flaws in the substrate WILL telegraph through.
    Peel and Stick tile is barely thicker than wallpaper. Your floor needs to be as smooth as a wall you'd paint or put wallpaper over.......unless you are fond of the textured or "distressed" look. Some colors or styles can hide a little.

    Either use a liquid primer OR flat trowel thin spread. NOT both under any circumstances.

    As far as a gob of construction adhesive in the corners to keep them from curling up? No, we Peel & Stick Flooring professionals wait a week or two and then drive 1 3/4" deck screws approximately 1" from the corner of each tile. Let's see if THAT doesn't hold those corners down. You might want to countersink and caulk those screw holes if anyone notices them.
     
  12. kylenelson

    kylenelson You'll find me on the floor I Support TFP Senior Member

    Oh, that's golden.
     
  13. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Incognito is a very funny guy - deck screws indeed. :D But that is just about as good as a dab of liquid nails... I mean just as BAD. :(

    Please, DIYers, never take advice from another DIYer when it's so much easier to get it from a pro.

    Jim
     
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